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  • Have I seen this someplace before?



    and yet .. it's somehow different..

    words so familiar, concepts presented identically

    but there's something missing...?

    maybe it's just me

    from the hidden Ravine below 13th at CN G&CC
    tu nunquam hic

    Secret Swing Tech c/o Pigaman @ Crackpot Labs

    wisdomingolf.com/index.php?option=com_ku...&id=47972&Itemid=225

    let energy instead of style define you.

    Proud Member 'Quote Yourself Club'

  • #2
    Originally posted by kid_fullerene View Post


    and yet .. it's somehow different..

    words so familiar, concepts presented identically

    but there's something missing...?

    maybe it's just me
    Hi Kid,

    Yes, I think we have seen this someplace before!

    As far as the "something missing" that you mentioned, are you referring to the "pre-turn" for the draw?

    Comment


    • #3
      I suspect you don't need to think about pre-turn or braced tilt if the swing matches your picture and feel. Personally , I do not want to pre-empt what my setup is going to be before I conduct my PMD and 'move that machine' to get a sense for how my swing matches my picture. It would be akin to the 'fashion show' that Shawn has previously mentioned. If I just put myself in a good athletic posture to allow the free swinging of my arms and strain free pivot (during my PMD) but then notice I am tending to sway too much and can't consistently match my swing to the picture , then I might try a braced tilt and pre-turn (if I wanted a draw) and repeat the PMD . For me a braced tilt and pre-turn is not obligatory because I find I cannot swing (strain free) through to target very well when I have too much pressure on my lead leg/foot. We all have different balance factors and I suspect I also have less flexibility in my lead hip relative to my right.
      Last edited by Schrodinger; 02-21-2018, 08:37 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        LOL!
        .. it's somehow different..

        words so familiar, concepts presented identically

        but there's something missing...?

        maybe it's just me



        Well, I want to make you feel good about yourself. It is not just you! I hear the same phrasing that Shawn uses in his videos. Coincidence or a convert? Or/And a golf professional who follows Shawn Clements and doesn't give him any acknowledgement for his phrasing and ideas!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Ron I View Post
          LOL!
          .. it's somehow different..

          words so familiar, concepts presented identically

          but there's something missing...?

          maybe it's just me



          Well, I want to make you feel good about yourself. It is not just you! I hear the same phrasing that Shawn uses in his videos. Coincidence or a convert? Or/And a golf professional who follows Shawn Clements and doesn't give him any acknowledgement for his phrasing and ideas!

          Ron,

          I don't think Kid meant any lack of acknowledgement of Shawn . . . no I'm reasonably certain he meant the "pre-turn" is what was missing.

          Seriously though, in the Comment section of this video I noticed somebody else said that this was a lot to do with Shawn's teachings. Alex responded saying that they work closely with Shawn. But as you observed, no acknowledgement of Shawn in this video.

          Comment


          • #6
            Im not a fan of this type of video. To be fair i havent seen any of his other stuff but I cant really see what this type of lesson brings to the table. Shawns stuff is always fleshed out more than this.

            The funny thing is that I agree with everything he says but in terms of learning. Nothing doing.

            What you are doing here is watching a good golfer golf and thats pretty much it.

            Again I have to say I havent seen his other stuff.





            Comment


            • #7
              Hi guys,

              "plagiarism" under any other label....

              (I'm resisting my "chairman-appointed" authority to purge.....)

              Why do we have to seek someone ELSE to suggest the SAME thing?

              What are we seeking? Confirmation?

              WE have access to the "original"?

              The "confirmation" that I take from this video is that we've been following the right guy all along....

              dude abides
              "OLD" Forum Participation

              Entry Date: 18-JAN-2011
              Posts: 1813
              Thank You: 1048

              "Be water, my friends"

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi guys,

                My sarcasm aside about the "pre-turn" being the thing that was missing, I do wonder about this video being so similar and practically identical to Shawn's teachings. But I also know that Shawn and Alex have collaborated together on golf videos. So I thought maybe Shawn is okay with others presenting things the same way he does to help advance golf instruction in general. That said, I still think Shawn could have and should have been acknowledged in this video.

                Comment


                • Ken Robie
                  Ken Robie commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Cally, I believe Shawn has often said that he did not invent this stuff either. His goal is just get the message out there. The business side is another story.

              • #9
                Originally posted by Cally View Post


                Ron,

                I don't think Kid meant any lack of acknowledgement of Shawn . . . no I'm reasonably certain he meant the "pre-turn" is what was missing.

                Seriously though, in the Comment section of this video I noticed somebody else said that this was a lot to do with Shawn's teachings. Alex responded saying that they work closely with Shawn. But as you observed, no acknowledgement of Shawn in this video.
                Hi Cally, Aloha WIG Friends all..

                thanks for continuing to move this little 'lark' forward . and I also remain intrigued by what everyone is seeing and sharing on this topic -

                for what it's worth -

                I do see this as a direct, nearly word for word 'free lift' from Shawn's various 'Target Focus' 'Alignment' and 'Relationship to Target' videos (et. al.) that we've seen over the past few years. I think I was on one of the initial forums in late 2010 and was fairly well contributing (if one can call it that) in earnest in 2011 - when Crackpot National Golf & CC (est. 2011) Tu Nunquam Hic & Everyone Only ..emerged as a strange figment of my imagination - and became a shared creation in the subsequent forums since.

                I also would offer that the initial 'what's missing' was a bit of a 'where's waldo' sort of question - in that this video had everything but the Chairman and his trademark 'enjoy that' as part of the content.

                And yes, there is also no 'Pre-Turn' or we'll see WIG specific posture in this video .. which as I reflected on this a bit is also interesting.. does the ball/swing/target picture work in the way demonstrated without the Braced Tilt or other WIG elements ..honestly, I'm not positive it does ..

                without trying to revisit certain topics that tend to come off the rails.. I think that one of the unique things that Shawn does is establish a setup posture that allows the arms to fall very straight down the line.. all optics aside .. the rhythm of that is unmistakable and would not necessarily work as well (or perhaps at all) with what I would view as a more rotational based swing.

                probably in the end, not that big a deal.. but then again .. it might be a little more important than it first looks..

                Imitation, it is said, is the sincerest form of flattery..

                and most property is theft, intellectual property, especially so..

                and I have no doubt that Shawn actively collaborates with them - so it is what it is..

                but notice - that when I share ideas - as do I think the vast majority of us do on this board.. we take great pains to provide some sort of attribution ..

                I think that it's only fair ..

                hopefully the 2.0 version of this or other similarities will provide some sort of recognition of the Chairman's contribution(s) to the specific form of the ideas demonstrated.. in that while he may not have invented Gravity or Golf .. this specific illustration is as far as I can tell, unique to his teaching ideas and methods..

                cheers for now..

                I look forward to the conversation continuing..

                k_f

                from the hidden Ravine below 13th at CN G&CC
                tu nunquam hic

                Secret Swing Tech c/o Pigaman @ Crackpot Labs

                wisdomingolf.com/index.php?option=com_ku...&id=47972&Itemid=225

                let energy instead of style define you.

                Proud Member 'Quote Yourself Club'

                Comment


                • #10
                  Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery....agreed.

                  Not sure you can copywright thoughts or speech about the the golf swing?

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    Originally posted by Gmonkey View Post
                    Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery....agreed.

                    Not sure you can copywright thoughts or speech about the the golf swing?
                    Hi Gmonkey

                    you are of course, raising an interesting question. Typically Copyrights and Trademarks involve other elements in the 'teaching or demonstration curve' where a method will invent some 'training aids' or specific terminology that can be defended and various rights asserted thereto. There are many examples - one in particular is how Stack & Tilt was aggressively defended and even now is rarely really spoken of or shown as there are known instances of getting cease & desist letters or being sued.

                    Hogan stuff is rampant - in that with no real clear ownership of the intellectual property and a lot of room for the interpretation of the 'real secret(s)' - you can teach that stuff all day under a variety of guises and be hard to take to court.

                    As for the 'imitation game' .. I think that this does indeed come down to fairly representing work or thinking that inspired the work & thinking that one is demonstrating. For me, that's more ethical and shows more integrity than simply dropping an idea out there as my own when it can be pretty easily shown that the work may even have been recently done by somebody as part of his/her life's work and a part of their livelihood.

                    this is a bit of 'dirty pool' .. but here's an example and I think you might see where I'm going with this in a second.. here's a great idea I just had about the nature of the golf swing..


                    When Im not golfing I like to shore fish or carp fish. This requires baits to be launched out 100yards and more at times.

                    My son is coming to the age when im thinking of taking him. Ok so I was watching an expert on casting with a view to helping me teach him and he made a very astute point (analogy).

                    He said that on the bank he sees 7 out of ten beginners using what he called a 'shot put' technique. Now I have never actually 'shot put' in my life but looking at the sport I have a mental idea of what he might mean. With long distance fishing It is quite scary to properly pivot a rod with a drop and weight and cast it out. It takes some getting used to. The easier and safer option is to push the rod with the right arm in the kind of shot put action. This will destroy the casting potential. You can cast a rod 60 yards with surprisingly little effort. If you try and bully it with a shot put action you will get 50 yards with massive effort. Its important to state that a cast in fishing is NOT the same as a CAST in golf. Different terms entirely.

                    I wondered if this had any cross over to golf.

                    I wondered if it is this temptation to get too active with the swing was what makes some people hit at the ball. Its not something I have done in golf but in my time with fishing ...yes.

                    As people have said you can aid the swing if you know what you are doing but dont 'shot put' at it.



                    yep, just came up with it .. mine all mine.. brilliant stuff with the fishing and shot putting.. can't wait to put this up on YouTube and show everybody my insight and get some followers and advertising revenue.

                    oh wait.. you mean that's not mine?? It might be somebody else's ..maybe even YOURS??

                    so many apologies ..and I know that's not really a fair play .. as it is actually YOURS.. but it's not copywritten.. and it's just an idea.. and it's about golf..

                    anyway.. enough of that ..

                    I don't begrudge anybody's right to say what they choose to say, make a living or try to pass on information that is important or build Wisdom (in Golf) .. but I think that it's essential that in fairness to the potential reader or viewer that one cites a source or sources.

                    Why?

                    so if someone is so moved to potentially try to research this stuff and build a more complete understanding or even advance it somehow.. they can.

                    which is I guess, the original premise of my little original post to begin with ..

                    all the best

                    k_f
                    from the hidden Ravine below 13th at CN G&CC
                    tu nunquam hic

                    Secret Swing Tech c/o Pigaman @ Crackpot Labs

                    wisdomingolf.com/index.php?option=com_ku...&id=47972&Itemid=225

                    let energy instead of style define you.

                    Proud Member 'Quote Yourself Club'

                    Comment


                    • #12
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