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  • #31
    Thanks Kid! I’ve found just a little something else on my Driver that has freed it up A LOT!! I wasn’t finishing my back swing. I’ve been holding on for dear life and haven’t been allowing my wrists to hinge in the backswing. When I finally said heck with it, low and behold, a free easy easy swing, the snap Shawn taps about towards the target, distance and very consistent accuracy as long as I just let it go!! I’m posting here again just so I’ll have a “go too”, if the wheels fall off! Thank you all so much for your help! It’s knocking strokes off my game and most importantly making this game the most fun it’s ever been!! You guys have been awesome!

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Tigersx4 View Post
      Thanks Kid! I’ve found just a little something else on my Driver that has freed it up A LOT!! I wasn’t finishing my back swing. I’ve been holding on for dear life and haven’t been allowing my wrists to hinge in the backswing. When I finally said heck with it, low and behold, a free easy easy swing, the snap Shawn taps about towards the target, distance and very consistent accuracy as long as I just let it go!! I’m posting here again just so I’ll have a “go too”, if the wheels fall off! Thank you all so much for your help! It’s knocking strokes off my game and most importantly making this game the most fun it’s ever been!! You guys have been awesome!
      Hi T4

      so glad that you've found that 'something' now in your Driver as well..that's a great feeling and probably the best input I've ever been given on Golf is that it is a game of adjustments.. the shots, the day, the feelings, physicality all vary ..

      my suggestion to you - and I try as best I can to follow my own advice with this - is to make some notes as to what the relevant target focus/setup alignment/swing keys are at any given point of your journey of discovery..

      I have 'names' of stuff that I use as sort of 'bins' for what I'm working on ..

      as if and when things change a bit ..you have an idea of not only what was 'working' but the context within it was working..

      that can be a big help in terms of working towards mastery and confidence ..

      everybody is different ..so my 'anchoring' ideas may not be right for you ..the important thing is to have ways of staying engaged and building on the work you've already done. Perhaps a 'shot diary' ..where you have a routine of certain shots you're working on and a means of 'scoring' your level of executing them & confidence with them .. especially under a bit of 'pressure' where you want to have things work when you need them to work..

      cheers for now

      k_f
      from the hidden Ravine below 13th at CN G&CC
      tu nunquam hic

      Secret Swing Tech c/o Pigaman @ Crackpot Labs

      wisdomingolf.com/index.php?option=com_ku...&id=47972&Itemid=225

      let energy instead of style define you.

      Proud Member 'Quote Yourself Club'

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      • #33
        I hope everyone isn’t getting irritated with this post as it’s taking different directions than just the 50-100 yd shots, but WOW, has it opened up so many avenues on different parts of my game! This morning I played another round and “just let it go”, with the irons as well. What I mean is I was holding back on the wrist hinge as well with them, but just not as much. I didn’t realize it. It’s really scary to, “just let it all hang out”, but the free easy swing Shawn always talks about is just flip’n amazing once you actually do it!! I really hope this thread will help others forget about their scores for a couple rounds, let it go completely, and learn... I scored an 88 today which is higher than I’d like, but I drove over a par4 which is 280, drove a down hill par 4 which is 325 with a 3 iron, “not bs’ing you guys”, yes it’s downhill but I’ve never gotten within 40yds of the green with a 3 iron, etc. WIG is the real deal! Thanks everyone, and thanks Shawn Clement for the vid’s!! I’m just very appreciative for all the help everyone has offered!!

        Comment


        • kid_fullerene
          kid_fullerene commented
          Editing a comment
          T4 ..that is awesome news.. congratulations on some great 'keep you coming back' shots and what sounds like an elevated level of play all the way around! If you're seeing some sub-90 play and looking at the 80's .. keep working on the scoring game .. you pick up a couple shots a side either in putts or chips.. and you'll be in the low 80s.. that's some very decent play! So glad to help you find a good path and options in your journey..while Golf can be a solitary game ..it is a shared passion .. it's great to have you here in our little corner of the great game!

          cheers

          k_f

      • #34
        Since it’s slow I’ll post another score of 80 from this morning. Becoming very consistent in the lower 80’s. Scratch is the long term goal. Why not!???

        Comment


        • #35
          Originally posted by Tigersx4 View Post
          Since it’s slow I’ll post another score of 80 from this morning. Becoming very consistent in the lower 80’s. Scratch is the long term goal. Why not!???
          Hi T4,

          Fantastic! Between your recent score of 79, and 80 yesterday, maybe scratch isn't such a "long term" goal. There are some very low handicap players on this forum who I'm sure can offer us valuable insights on how to move towards "scratch".

          IMHO I think once one becomes very consistent like you are with scoring it's easier to see what specific aspects of the game we need to work on, e.g., putting. But here's something that I ran across that may not be so evident or obvious, and that's the idea of distance control on approach shots . . .



          I'm sure there are lots of opinions on this, and the answers will vary for each player depending on their strengths and weaknesses, but the importance of distance control is something interesting to consider that might be overlooked by many in their quest of moving towards "scratch."

          Comment


          • #36
            Hi guys,

            Thanks, Cally, for posting that video! I enjoyed it.

            I can't say that I disagree with Mr. Crossfield in what he is suggesting?

            But, NOT so EASY to "measure" for most of us who don't have access to Launch-Monitors on a regular basis?
            (I do, whole-heartedly agree with him on one's INABILITY to make this determination on the Range?)

            However....
            Mr. Crossfield glosses over the aspect that I find pertinent (and much more easily determined).
            It is EASILY captured after just a FEW rounds?

            How often do you THREE-PUTT on the green?

            Now....I've asked this question to HUNDREDS of players and to paraphrase their typical response?

            "...I don't know?"

            Well, why not?

            My suggestion to you is to COUNT them?

            Every time you 3-putt is ONE stroke added to your handicap.
            Plain and simple.

            I have played to a low-single-digit handicap for many years.
            I average 1.04 3-putts per 18 holes....

            Now... I do NOT advertise this performance as a means of "showing off"?

            However?

            How does YOUR performance stack up against that?

            On PGATour.com, they have an AMAZING array of statistics.
            I like to look at the performance stats of that player who is the WORST performer in the category and compare my performance to THAT level.
            So, my goal (statistically) is to be equivalent to the very WORST of the very BEST in the world?

            But, do you know HOW I can compare MY performance vs. THEIRS?

            Because I MEASURE my performance.
            Do you?
            If not....HOW do you KNOW if you've improved or not?

            Think about it....
            Begin to MEASURE your game's components and dare to see how you match up.

            Be water, my friends
            dude abides.
            Last edited by COSTA103; 3 weeks ago.
            "OLD" Forum Participation

            Entry Date: 18-JAN-2011
            Posts: 1813
            Thank You: 1048

            "Be water, my friends"

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            • #37
              Great advice Costa! It’s crossed my mind to do just that, but haven’t yet. This morning I I scored in the low 80s and from memory I 3 putted 5 times...😬😳😬 Since my 100 yd in shots have been much improved I can say without a doubt I’m on in regulation MUCH more than before I started this thread. Scores are trickling down, but as you’ve suggested I need to keep some records. I have on most of my scorecards “PUTT”, when I blew a birdie or par opportunity, but that’s the extent of it. Lol Oh, and out of bounds with the driver. Fix one and another seems to arise!

              Comment


              • #38
                Hi guys,
                Recording your data takes MUCH less effort than one would think.
                You can capture ALL of the pertinent data with FOUR (additional; to your score?) entries on your scorecard...

                Fairway Hit? Y - R- L
                Green in Reg? Y - L/R; Long/Short
                Number of Putts

                I also track the DISTANCE of my FIRST putt?
                (how do I know the distance of my first putt? I PACE it off!!!)

                You can capture it all BEFORE you arrive at the NEXT tee?

                I've done it religiously for more than the past DECADE!

                Give it a try. Don't CAVE because you don't see any change?

                Change WILL come IF you give it TIME and the opportunity to change...

                Be water, my friends
                dude abides
                "OLD" Forum Participation

                Entry Date: 18-JAN-2011
                Posts: 1813
                Thank You: 1048

                "Be water, my friends"

                Comment


                • #39
                  Hi T4, Greetings WIG Friends everywhere..

                  Putting is its own cruel game ....the good news is that with your improved(ing) ball striking and approach shots ..you're in it! The Bad News ..is that 'you're in it' .. as putts and putting are where the game is truly played. One literally has to play themselves into it and then have to confront and master the putting game.

                  There's a lot to this - and I'm confident in saying that it's more than what I would even know or think to try and share. Let me offer a couple approaches to some of the thinking that I see some better players use in and around the scoring piece of the game.

                  1. They're playing with some confidence ..in that they know that if they leave themselves in a tougher spot after a 'miss' they have sufficient skills to either contain the 'damage' or salvage a par, so they will play to their strengths and hit the shot that they want vs. 'hoping' it someplace near (pretty much where I'm playing much of the time...'hope' )

                  2. They're playing back from the hole ..that's to say that not only are they putting themselves in an approach angle and yardage into the hole ..they're using that advantage to hit the shot to the spot or spots on the green that leaves them with the putt they want to hit - and avoid putts that they don't want to hit at all (ie: sloping downhill )

                  3. assuming they've navigated themselves into a good situation - they're not going to give the hole away ..they'll strike the high percentage putt that gives them best chance at a good score.

                  the idea with any kind of technique and training is that you have the resources to respond when the situation(s) arise.

                  I guess one could phrase that as 'playing within yourself' ..you hit shots that you know you can hit to hit some putts you know you can hit..and if you run into the 'rub of the green' ..you can distinguish what the differences were.

                  All that having been said..I can tell you that I'm always pleasantly surprised when I have that mentality when I'm playing .. it's not that I can't..I just find that it's sort of rare that I actually am playing with that kind of mindfulness.. ah well, something to work on in 2018 .. I may pull this off yet!

                  and now..back to you ..if you had potentially 5 shots that you left out there on the greens..maybe it's time to do a little forensics..

                  1. how were the putts played out - did you hit the putt you wanted and just miss it?

                  2. if you missed it - was it alignment, a misread or mishit?

                  3. was it something in the conditions ..? late year ..often the greens are not cut the same or they're a bit wet or dewy ..did you notice and adjust or simply just stand over the ball and put the speed on the ball that you would during a drier day?

                  4. critical one ..did you put the ball where you wanted when you hit the approach? if you didn't ..where was the miss?


                  you can see in the pro game where these things are sort of critical ..when a top notch player loses confidence in their putting, often the pressure shows up in trying to hit a perfect approach shot and that adds pressure..so often you see shots being mishit from the middle of the fairway leaving the player in an overly challenging spot.

                  I am a fan of and follow Phil Mickelson and you can see where he has some of these concerns over the past few years..a brilliant player..Hall of Famer - but facing the same concerns as any of us..his are just for a much higher level of play and for a lot more money.

                  If you're getting to the scores that you want from a ball striking perspective, and it's clear that you are.. you're now a 'player' ..and this is where the new game begins..

                  so much of what you've done is simply 'tuition' ..and you've successfully paid the price and taken the classes..

                  and it gets you here..

                  I can tell you that the few times I've gotten anywhere near this ..it seems almost a 'vertical climb' ..

                  and yet ..that's the game..

                  the Dude (the one who must abide) has already given you some great ideas on how to construct an approach to it ..the physicality of the system that can help you apply the technique you already possess ..he's like that... and it's good stuff..

                  hopefully my little ramble contributes in a positive way to the context of how one arrives at that..and can improve the 'margins' of how it all can work.

                  I have one friend who can really play ..probably pro level ball striking skills..he told me a story once of how he had played with a now retired PGA Touring Pro....at the end of the round ..the Pro looked at him and said ..'that was the most beautiful 80 I ever saw on this course' ..

                  the moral of the story ..and this was from my friend about how the game is really played .. 'ball striking alone will not get it done'

                  'what are you practicing'

                  'what are you mindful of when you get on the course'

                  cheers for now

                  k_f
                  from the hidden Ravine below 13th at CN G&CC
                  tu nunquam hic

                  Secret Swing Tech c/o Pigaman @ Crackpot Labs

                  wisdomingolf.com/index.php?option=com_ku...&id=47972&Itemid=225

                  let energy instead of style define you.

                  Proud Member 'Quote Yourself Club'

                  Comment


                  • #40
                    Originally posted by kid_fullerene View Post

                    'what are you practicing'
                    k_f
                    Ah, kid....mi amigo....

                    as INSIGHTFUL a QUESTION as has ever been asked?

                    Practice-time on the putting-green is never as sexy as pounding balls on the Range...
                    At the end of the day, it'll generally feel a bit "pedestrian".

                    But.....it is an absolutely IMPERATIVE if you wish to Improve?

                    CAN you propel the ball ON the line; AT the speed at which you INTENDED?

                    If "Yes"? Then sometimes the damn ball just does not go in......No Soup for YOU! Deal with it.

                    If "No"?.......Get back out there until you can.

                    dude abides

                    "OLD" Forum Participation

                    Entry Date: 18-JAN-2011
                    Posts: 1813
                    Thank You: 1048

                    "Be water, my friends"

                    Comment


                    • kid_fullerene
                      kid_fullerene commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Dude..

                      thanks for taking this to an important and valuable 'next step' ..what I would want to contribute to this as well is about understanding how one is seeing a putting line and standing to it. Fitting for Clubs is taken as an 'automatic' ..Fitting For the right golf ball, less so, but just as important.. but never neglect the sight or top line of one's wedges..but especially the PUTTER! I went to a longer handle with a Super Stroke Grip this season..loved it - can see the line and stay with it so much better.. knowing what I know now ...wish I'd done it sooner.. I miss aspects of the feel of my old Ping ..but the sight line has helped me so much, I will adjust and learn the feels with it.. my misses are outrageously better.

                      if you can ..mark out lines and break points on the green or near the hole ..practice seeing it..learning the speeds and feels and of course the sight lines..

                      not sexy ..but as Seve' used to say.. it's not so much 'how' ..but 'how many'..

                      cheers

                      k_f

                    • Ken Robie
                      Ken Robie commented
                      Editing a comment
                      I would like to interject a facet of golf that the majority of golfers (i'm assuming really really high percentage) struggle with on the golf course. And that would be information overload, especially on the green. We have all of these swing thoughts and memories from our practice sessions and things that we have seen and read swirling around in the back of our mind, now add that mental distraction to the many variables on the green that Kid has mentioned and our well intentioned putting stroke has a melt down during the execution phase. So I would ask you what do you consider the most important pieces of information that you need to decipher before making your stroke??

                    • kid_fullerene
                      kid_fullerene commented
                      Editing a comment
                      @KenRobie - 'most important information' ..great question, and to some degree is sort of technique or concept dependent.. which is to say ..are you trying to lag the ball or aggressively drive the ball into the hole? Some of it depends on what kinds of greens/conditions that you grew up playing..but assuming the axiom 'speed determines line' is operable.. I'm always looking at what the pace of the ball needs to be. That may not work for many - but I play a lag..and am looking for a way to drain a putt..so my goal is to have the ball on a pace that would be the speed of 'water' (be water on the greens) as it will be moved at the speed of gravity and run on its own to the low point. There's a bunch of stuff around that concept that exceed the time and space in the comments section .but it might be worth starting a 'putting thread' as putting is more than worthy of exploration and discussion ..

                      cheers

                      k_f

                  • #41
                    Lol what an awesome game, this game of golf!! So today I shot an 82 and my iron game was just hideous! I’ve been grooving the irons, but not today. I’ve been struggling with the driver, but today was hitting the fairways and long. Been struggling with the putter, but today 2-3 putts, “good for me”, and sank 4 up and downs. Everything else was 2 putts. Anyway, got a new putter that’s much heavier than my last and yes I’ve been practicing like crazy on my putting. Made myself a routine before putting and taking some of the thinking out of it. 3 quick strokes looking at the pin and I’ll be darned if this puny brain of mine didn’t get the distance right 90% of the Time. The other 10% was me “helping”... Another long story short, today putting saved my butt in a big way. Thanks for all your help fellas!!

                    Comment


                    • kid_fullerene
                      kid_fullerene commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Hi T4 ..

                      great score under some challenging mental conditions! it sounds like a game on the rise and that's a great place to be. You've got some interesting 'management' challenges ahead in that the normal space to want to take this is the 'I'm scratch if everything comes together' ..that's a 'siren song' and probably not realistic. It's not that you don't have the game for it - it's more that if you look at say the best top end or Pro games ..it's super rare that you ever hear them saying that they were ever on all cylinders..that's what makes those rounds so special ..so it's not to say that you can't/won't get it..but as a matter of probability ..if the greatest see it rarely..well, chances are we will see it rarely as well. That gives me a chance to throw a different mentality into the mix .. accept the reality that your game is going to be a bit imperfect ..a bit 'rough' ..but it's a matter of degree..your misses will continue to improve the 'bottom' of your game will continue to rise and with it, your scores will be lower. Some of what was likely going on with your irons was that with your better driving, you were hitting from distances and angles on the fairway that were unfamiliar to you. That's not a bad thing ..but it's a new challenge..and you can see that the unfamiliar takes a bit of getting used to. You can see that with the better players ..they know they can hit it a very long way..but they're looking for the predictable shot that will give them the 'look' they want going into the hole .. they're wise enough to know that while they can get up and down from anywhere..the game is more fun and better paying when you don't have to. Keep finding ways to play YOUR game ..clearly it's more than enough if you play 'within yourself' ..choose the spots..put the ball as close as you can ..and keep knocking 'em in! I'm truly delighted for your progress ..and send you some karma to keep it going strong! You'll see the next plateau before you climb up to it....so keep doing the good things and enjoy the times you're out playing! cheers for now, k_f

                  • #42
                    Oh, and by the way... I’m posting these to give YOU GUYS props for all your help. I’m really appreciative for all your advice. I’ve taken it to heart, your advice is working, and I’ll keep asking as things arise. And the last few rounds I’ve started tracking all my putts Costa. Thanks again everyone and of course Shawn.

                    Comment


                    • #43
                      Wise words Kid! I’m just enjoying the current progress and the game of golf itself. I expect a plateau at some point, but also some good improvement. Just enjoying the journey for now!!

                      Comment


                      • #44
                        Last post on this particular topic, but just to make a little fun of myself and also to show the reality of this wonderfully cruel game... Played 18 yesterday, kept score for 9 holes. I’ll just say the positive is that my putting is improving as I’ve worked diligently and my speed was great and has been improving. But the wheels fell off yesterday! Lol I’ll leave it at that, but will say that it was the first time I’ve played in steady 15mph+ winds and I really let it get in my head. Shoving the club all over the place! Lol. Thanks for you’re help again!!

                        Comment


                        • kid_fullerene
                          kid_fullerene commented
                          Editing a comment
                          wind is hard to play in - the pros make it look easy, but it is very hard to identify and sustain rhythm in a swing when the wind is blowing..add now the aspects of having to try to potentially keep the ball down or try to either hold the ball into the wind or let it be worked..that's a lot of new variables.. they can be kind of fun once you feel like you have a pretty good understanding of your game and swing..but in the early going with a new swing.. well, that can be a hard day. The good news, your swing is fine, your game is fine..you will be fine...but the only way to play the wind is to play in the wind a lot and just get used to it. Cheers, k_f

                        • Ken Robie
                          Ken Robie commented
                          Editing a comment
                          The best thing for me about extreme gusty wind conditions is making yourself commit to the shot you have decided on when you step up to the ball. If you are trying to take two extra clubs and swing easy with out changing your mind mid swing and be successful you have to be committed to your shot. Some times the wind beats you by letting up or gusting harder, but that's golf.

                      • #45
                        Windy golf is fun!

                        The only thing you can do in the wind is turn it into a positive. I enjoy playing in the wind because I feel I almost never have to take a full speed swing. Offspeed shots keep the ball lower with less spin. This is the key. Learning to make good contact with a less-than-full-speed swing means you have a good understanding of how the swing is supposed to work/feel. If you can't, you're likely using your hands and arms to try and shove the club back into position and having to default to the ball.

                        Have you ever played with someone who can't take anything less than a 100 MPH swing? They'll take the same violent lash with a 105 yard wedge shot as they will with a 300 yard drive? It's because they haven't learned how to make decent contact with offspeed shots. One of my favorite drills I give to students to take onto the course is to take 2 extra clubs on each shot. Example: If I have a 145 yard shot it's usually a stock 9 iron for me... except this time I'm taking 7 iron and finding a way to hit the green still. Give it a try if you're not afraid of improving .

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