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  • #91
    Couldn't quite reproduce the feel I had with my 3i during my last session at the range. So, I kept comparing my 3W and iron swings. I noticed earlier than my arms were more in front of me at address. I paid attention to the distance to the ball. Obviously the wood has a longer shaft but still.

    Decided to go goldilock with my 3i. Did PMD letting the club go as far as it wanted to swing away from my body. And swung. Ball on a string. Hit a nice powerful fade. Nice rhythm. Waited for the weight. Felt the clubhead all the way. And such a snap in front. Felt like this guys in the video below. Especially around the impact area where it felt my body was resisting the pull of the arms big time.



    What I realised now is that I wasn't doing PMD properly. Swung the club too close to my body instead of letting the arms extend as they wanted.

    Don't know why I have different feel with my 3W and irons. I paid attention to my 3W swing and I can see my body is resisting the pull of the arms. Maybe difference in weight (graphite vs steel? Weight of the clubhead?).

    Anyway, I just feel liberated. No more crap about right elbow staying close to the chest or wrists hinge in the backswing. This video came to my mind. Not very golf-like but who cares. In French she doesn't say "let it go" (although it talks to me) but "freed, liberated". Here is the French version.



    Funny things, three kids playing around at the range came to me at that moment asking to video my swing because it was so "good". It was for some school work. I gladly obliged delivering a nice powerful fade. Bloody snap out here. And so I can say that I was once admired for my swing! Obviously they don't know it's just bloody hard work and sweat. Love the Great Game.

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    • #92
      Kept reading Tchouang Tseu a.k.a Zhuangzi. A little excerpt. I found an English translation but found it very obscure. Here is my own translation (from French. Not Chinese!). Still obscure somehow but at least in today's words.

      Originally posted by Zhuangzi
      The beauty of Heaven and Earth is wordless, the regularity of the four seasons is expected, the constitutive order of things unspoken. The sage knows how to reach the source of Heaven and Earth beauty, he understands the constitutive order of all things. Having observed the way of the universe, the all-round man does nothing, the sage doesn't get involved. They unite with the illuminating, divine and subtle principle and are one with the thousand and thousand transformations of the matter.
      To do nothing or non-doing is actually more subtle than it looks. The word has different meanings depending on the context. Think about the meanings of the word "spirit" for example. There are many. In the right context, non-doing actually means doing but with little effort.

      And are we not united with a subtle principle and one with the thousand and thousand transformations of the matter when we swing effortlessly?

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      • #93
        Worked on putting this morning. Short putts are not an issue but I struggle with long putts. Contact is usually not good and distance suffers accordingly.

        Maybe that's because I cut tree and hit volley ball so much but I just took the same posture. Weight on the front foot, ball more forward and I felt the ball was in the way of me swinging to the target. Contact was good and I was pretty good in terms of distance control on long putts. I immediately noticed that my grip pressure was more intense.

        I always had the idea that the putting stroke was a gentle pendulum and that I just should just swing further back to add distance. It now feels I take exactly the position I take when chipping or swinging and that I'm more "hitting" through the ball.

        Regarding the axis of the swing being left, I read some stuff on natural preferences and it matches my profile. I understand other profiles keep their axis centered while other keep their axis on the right side.

        Anyway, it feels like I'm unlearning my golf swing. And this thread is becoming kind of my blog so I should probably rename it...

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        • #94
          Shawn talks about turning your arse rather shoulders.
           

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          • Schrodinger
            Schrodinger commented
            Editing a comment
            Unless I'm mistaken, when Shawn talks about shoulders he is referring to the individual shoulder joint movements (4:55 - 5:05). Whenever I think about shoulders rotating , I've always visualised two shoulder joints being connected by a rigid 'rod' rotating around a pivot axis. I'm sure people think of the latter when they talk about a 90 degree shoulder turn (ie. from the position in space of 'rod/shoulder sockets' unit at top of backswing vs address position). I don't think Shawn is saying to move the whole upper torso 'passively' by using the turn of the hips because that doesn't make sense to me? We have very powerful muscles in the upper torso that can assist the hips (if you let them) to turn the 'whole turntable ' so just let your CNS work out which muscles need engaging for your focused intent. If you have a big muscular butt and weak upper torso , maybe turning that turntable will primarily be a 'derriere' influenced 'trebuchet counterweight'. But maybe you have a skinny non-muscular 'behind' but strong abs, pecs , lats ,etc ? Maybe your CNS will use those muscles primarily in tandem with your hips to rotate the turntable. In the latter scenario, the 'trebuchet counterweight' will primarily be your upper torso but never in conflict (ie, x-factor) with the lower half (which will cause strain and wear and tear in the facet joints).

            Whatever makes up that counterweight (butt, upper torso or most likely a combination) , there will be a resultant rotation of that 'rod and shoulder sockets' unit (with virtually zero degree of individual shoulder movement - as per Shawn's definition) which (imho) will cause a 'torque'. That torque transmitted via the pivoting rigid 'rod/shoulder sockets' unit is a secondary effect of the pivoting counterweight (whatever its constitution) moving in UNISON (ie.no large pelvic/torso separation, no x-factor ,no strain,no injury).

            PS.
            A gentleman called DG Seward was one of the first to form an analogy between the golf swing and an upside down trebuchet . Ron posted a video of this in a previous post:

            https://wisdomingolf.vbulletin.net/f...vid-leadbetter

            The analogy is defined below:

            The raised weight represents the torque applied through the shoulders,
            the long wooden beam represents the golfers arm,
            and the rope sling represents the shaft of the golf club.
            Last edited by Schrodinger; 01-12-2018, 07:00 PM.

        • #95
          My purpose in posting the video was to make sure that the shoulder turn is thought as a dynamic process involving the hips and lower torso. It is as Shrodinger says, "
          We have very powerful muscles in the upper torso that can assist the hips (if you let them) to turn the 'whole turntable ' so just let your CNS work out which muscles need engaging for your focused intent."
          The Feet Together Drill really allows you to feel the hips turning and the derriere pointing towards the target in the backswing. I believe the swing feel of the derriere pointing towards the target is a more powerful swing thought than having the thought that the shoulders are pointing towards the target because it insures a bigger turntable move.

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          • #96
            Originally posted by Ron I View Post
            My purpose in posting the video was to make sure that the shoulder turn is thought as a dynamic process involving the hips and lower torso. It is as Shrodinger says, "
            We have very powerful muscles in the upper torso that can assist the hips (if you let them) to turn the 'whole turntable ' so just let your CNS work out which muscles need engaging for your focused intent."
            The Feet Together Drill really allows you to feel the hips turning and the derriere pointing towards the target in the backswing. I believe the swing feel of the derriere pointing towards the target is a more powerful swing thought than having the thought that the shoulders are pointing towards the target because it insures a bigger turntable move.
            Hi guys,
            If there is ONE thing that I FAIL to do (typically) that sabotages my swing-attempt, it is this.
            I fail to TURN! I know I'm supposed to and I try my damndest to TURN like I'm supposed to....

            But, (unfortunately) I often defer to my "youth-training" of preparing to SLIDE forward?

            Sounds like a great goal for 2018?
            Rather than "...turn my SHOULDERS towards the target...
            Rather than "...turn my HIPS towards the target....

            How about "...turn my BUTT towards the target?

            I don't know IF it'll make a difference, nor do I understand WHY it SHOULD?
            But....you never know which key will open the lock?

            I'm gonna give that a try.
            Thanks Ron!

            dude abides
            Last edited by COSTA103; 01-13-2018, 08:56 AM.
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            Comment


            • Cally
              Cally commented
              Editing a comment
              Hi Dude,

              It's always nice to have an encouraging range session . . . even when it's in the middle of winter!

              I don't want to get too far off topic here, but is there a rule of thumb for how much less distance one can expect when practicing in the winter? I know distance isn't a primary concern, I'm just curious about club selection when playing on the course in cold weather (not considering any wind, just the lower temps alone).

              While watching the PGA tournament yesterday evening that went to a playoff and will be continued today, I heard an announcer say now with the temperature dropping the ball won't go as far. I know that much, I just wonder how much of a difference is there? Can it be measured in a percentage? For example if the temps are below 50 degrees, like mid 40's or so, how much difference in distance do you plan for, maybe 20% or so?

              In the alternative, I wonder what to plan for when the temps are above 90 degrees. I remember one time when it was in the low to mid 90's, and on the second hole for my second shot I had 212 to the flag according to my range finder, and so I went with my 24 degree hybrid thinking it would land just on the front of the green and leave me with an uphill putt. But to my surprise the ball flew over the flag stick and past the back of the green by 10 yards. It was a pretty shot, but yikes that ball went a good bit farther than I expected.

            • COSTA103
              COSTA103 commented
              Editing a comment
              Hi Cally,
              At the range, it is difficult to "measure" distances?
              Even if were possible, the balls generally suck. Certainly they are NOT comparable to that which you'd play on the course?

              I think cold weather affects LONG clubs MORE than short clubs.
              It comes down to how "deep" into the ball your Compression advances...
              Shorter shaft = slower swing speed, means LESS "smash"; higher percentage of interaction with the Cover vs. interaction with the core..

              Temp was high 40'sF....I didn't notice any difference?
              However, having said that, I very seldom hit balls at that range OTHER than in the Winter???

              In any event, I would not expect distance to deteriorate more than 5 or 10 percent at worst? Perhaps maybe half a club?
              Certainly not more than ONE club?
              And, if it is OVER 50*, I doubt a player at our level would notice a difference at all?

              Biggest problem is when it gets REALLY cold, is my fear that my "composite" club-heads (especially Driver) might CRACK?
              Frozen ball collides with Frozen club-head?
              That's why I do ALL my winter-sessions with Wedge only?

              Off to the range to see if I can duplicate my "Lead with the Butt" approach.
              I did find it a bit disconcerting to lead "backwards?
              Much like if you were trying to relocate your bedroom dresser across the floor...
              You just might "lean" into it with your Back and PUSH with your legs?

              dude abides

            • Cally
              Cally commented
              Editing a comment
              Thanks Dude! Have fun at the range today! We are supposed to be getting more Arctic weather soon so enjoy the frigid weather reprieve while you can!

          • #97
            Hi guys,

            Originally posted by COSTA103 View Post
            How about "...turn my BUTT towards the target?
            This made me think of Shawn saying in the following video, "So when I remove the body out of the way using the legs, you're going to feel a major swivel, an oily swivel of your BUTT toward the target." See between the 6:46 and 7:00 marks . . .

            Comment


            • Cally
              Cally commented
              Editing a comment
              I thought I would add to this that I like the feeling of pressing my right/rear heel into the ground as I initiate the takeaway and turn out of the way in the backswing.

          • #98
            Cally, why only back heel?

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            • #99
              I was there too.

              Tried something here and there, every new video of Shawn was a source of wisdom, but also confusion. Information overload and - read the threads - many internal thinking and only few task executions.

              Since I decluttered my brain, even with the nuggets of Shawn, and do much simpler tasks, my golf performance exploded.

              It is simple, but boring to stick with a single task instead of intellectual thinking about details.

              Find something, that naturally turns the body in an appropriate way and don’t change every day.

              My break through was the video with the left hand swing (I am right handed).

              There is the intermediate target, the ball, slash through both with the left hand, everything is fine, including shoulder turn.

              For training purpose, observe, whether the take away fits the task to slash through BOTH in the correct PATH. Body will find ( quickly) a solution for that simple task.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Ron I View Post
                Cally, why only back heel?
                Hi Ron,

                For me it goes back to this old video where (starting at about the 7:00 mark to about the 8:30 mark) Shawn is in the forward press move with the back heel lifted off the ground slightly and then he plants the back heel into the ground to initiate the move into the backswing . . .



                The walk to a better swing video would be a more recent example of this plant; fall feeling of the back heel planting to initiate the swinging of the arms into the backswing . . .

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                • Couldn't quite get back my wonderful "liberated" swing at the range last week-end. Couldn't figure out what was wrong.

                  Yesterday, I worked on the snap in the garden. Gentle snap back, snap forth. Not really there. Tried to force the wrists hinge. So so. And suddenly brushed the grass in front. Felt my shoulders completely relaxed doing so.

                  Did my usual iron swing. Shoulders got tense in the impact area. Just enough to "hold" the club and prevent a proper snap. Shoulders completely relaxed. Ball on a string. Snap. Brush the grass.

                  Funnily, I had the same exact problem while chipping. Solved it a few years ago. At the time I realised this happened in what Fred Shoemaker calls a blind spot. This is an area where you are not aware of what's happening in your swing. That's usually where you have issues. I'll post about that.

                  Don't know where this comes from. Ball bound? Fear of the ground / mat? Years back before I knew I needed to swing to a target, I hit the mat so much I ended up with intercostal pain. Had to stop golf for a while.

                  Anyway, need to see how it goes at the range. That's for this week-end. Some call it an awareness game. Couldn't agree more.

                  Comment


                  • Most what I read is related to internal focus. Not good.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Alpineberlinette View Post
                      Most what I read is related to internal focus. Not good.
                      Well, yes and no. I make a difference between internal focus i.e. position body parts in such or such position, and awareness of what's happening in my swing. In the first case, you're trying to position body parts in such or such position. In the second case, you're trying to feel what's happening in your swing. Trying a mix I guess. I now feel awareness is key.

                      Comment


                      • Too much intellectual approach for the phase of your issues.
                        Select a simple task, stick with it, enjoy the more luck you will have as longer as you exercise.
                        Flipping around, changing every 5 minutes to another nugget, is the root cause of the most common golf trap.

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                        • Focusing on a task
                          Practiced irons at the range on Saturday. Focusing on the task only as Alpine recommended. Target. Ball is in the way of me swinging to the target. Swing. No good result. At some stage, I started to hit my wood every 5 balls or so. Hoping my CNS would pick the message. It didn't. Puzzled. But as the saying goes "Rome wasn't built in a day".

                          Comparing backswing
                          At home, I kept comparing my backswing with my wood / volley ball / tree cutting and with irons. Noticed with my wood that my left arm is fully extended at address and is pretty tense. Shawn has actually a video on this subject where he explains that you don't want your left arm to feel like a wet noodle. Found it interesting (doesn't quite match the arms-are-like-wet-towels analogy).



                          Back to focus
                          At this stage, my reasoning is that I must have a different focus somehow with my irons. Went pitching on Sunday. 25/30 yards shot with a lob wedge. Paid attention to the setup and focus. Weight on the left side. Left arm extended. Same kind of backswing I have when cutting tree. Nice precise shots.

                          So, what's the difference? When I cut a tree, my focus is the base of the tree... And I want to cut it. When I hit a volley ball, my focus is the volley ball... And I want to smash through it.

                          I thought about my focus with a ball and a target in play and I think I have the same focus when hitting wood, pitching, chipping or putting. It's difficult to verbalise but it's kind of a foggy smorgasbord of the ball, the target and the momentum / energy I need to send through the ball to reach the target. And I think I keep all of that in my mind during the swing. Call me Mr Obvious but my focus is to hit through the ball to the target.

                          When I hit my irons, I think my focus is not the same. There is the ball and the target but I "loose" the ball somehow. I'm not focused on it anymore like the target or the momentum. Kind of a missing piece. Difficult to explain using words. I'll work on that next week-end and see how it goes.

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