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  • View this with an open mind and see what it does for you

    For those of you struggling with some of Shawn's concepts and analogies, take a look at this video and overlap the concepts and philosophies with Shawn's videos. Look past the fact that it is not Shawn speaking but focus on hearing Shawn's words in the message. Hope it helps some of you. Here is the link: https://youtu.be/nGAw-wOmgec?t=2052

  • #2
    I don't like what Malaska is teaching ( i have his book). as it relates to the downswing because he is teaching that one should manipulate the club. The hardest task that i had to learn with Wisdom in golf was to stop trying to manipulate the club ( a 30 year habit). If you can get yourself to focus on the task of swinging to target everything else falls into place. That is what makes Shawn's teaching so unique and difficult. Everyone else wants you to make a move to control your club and body actions. These moves never work as they are not repeatable or do that actually work. The reason I say that what Shawn teaches is difficult (it is actually very simple) is that as students we are not willing to accept the fact that we do not have to manipulate the golf club. We accept that in every other use of a tool such as an axe or a hammer but not with a golf club. Everyone is looking for the secret controlling move and the secret is actually that their is not secret move.

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    • #3
      Like I said above (not pointing fingers or trying to be condenscending here) But try to look for what you need in this video and not what you've already convinced yourself that you don't like.

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      • #4
        I do like that Malaska incorporates more WIG principles in his teaching rather than positions.

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        • #5
          From what I've learned about his swing instruction he is advocating feeling/responding to the dynamic weight of the club and that is quite reflective of WIG (although MM also thinks we need to redirect that dynamic weight) . From what I've read about critical analysis of his instruction (which took many hours to try and understand), it might benefit those who have problems pulling down too actively with their arms (ie. independent of their pivot action) towards the ball from the top of the backswing creating excessive forward clubshaft lean at impact with an open clubface. The MM move is apparently a very rotary type of swing where one is actively rotating one's forearms to swing the club on the 'functional plane' and is different to a 'throwing action' requiring better timing to get the clubface square (because it's a technique that tends to risk a higher rate of clubface closure). In essence, from what I've read and understood so far, the MM move is an OTT move from the inside.

          PS . The functional plane is.the lower half of that circle in the picture below.



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          Last edited by Schrodinger; 10-20-2018, 09:41 AM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Schrodinger View Post
            From what I've read about critical analysis of his instruction (which took many hours to try and understand), it might benefit those who have problems pulling down too actively with their arms (ie. independent of their pivot action) towards the ball from the top of the backswing creating excessive forward clubshaft lean at impact with an open clubface. ​​​
            As a matter of interest, do you have the same kind of analysis for Shawn's swing i.e. who might benefit from it?

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            • Schrodinger
              Schrodinger commented
              Editing a comment
              Hi Ferko - No I haven't seen a detailed analysis of Shawn's swing (not like the one for Mike Malaska). His swing is obviously unique but here is a summary:

              1. Shawn rotates pelvis/upper torso together at the start of the downswing as a single unit which is powering his swing
              2. Shawn is probably using shoulder girdle muscles at the same time as point 1 to pull his arms towards the ground (maybe that is a bit of contentious issue because Shawn says it should be a 'dead weight fall' but he's probably assisting gravity). It might feel more of a dead weight fall to Shawn because his swing plane during his early downswing is very vertical.
              3. Shawn in essence is doing an 'over the top' move from the inside but his arms are moving much more vertically downwards than outwards.
              4. Shawn's pelvis and upper torso are almost square to the ball at impact (just like Mike Malaska).

              Not sure if any of the above would benefit anyone as we should all have our own unique WIG swings.

              PS. Remember all this analysis of golf swings I've read and stated above is all 'theory' . No-one knows for certain what muscles are interconnected and firing in various sequences to get the task done. From what I've learned so far , for every opinion made on golf mechanics/biomechanis/kinetics, they can be questioned and (many times) contradicted.
              Last edited by Schrodinger; 10-21-2018, 08:41 AM.

          • #7
            Watched additional videos from Malaska to better understand his philosophy and teaching. I think his thinking is well summarised in the following video: don't fight momentum. Slight move at the top and you're done.



            Regarding arms vs body swing, Malaska says it is a blend. Golf is a skills development game with several speed producers. And you need to help Mr Havacamp at 3:20 ;-)



            As far as the grip is concerned, Malaska recommends a grip that naturally squares the club face at impact. Could be strong but not necessarily. Depends on individuals.



            Another recurring theme in his videos is "pushing away". I think this is to show the difference with "firing the hips".



            Malaska also uses analogies from other sports: hockey, baseball, throwing a medicine ball to name a few I've seen. One if his favorite drill seems to be the L to L drill and the split grip (think hockey).

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            • #8
              Hi Ferko

              thanks for contributing those videos..they definitely are a great walk-through of MM..

              I would also contribute this one - which is a sort of schematic of his unique club tip aka 'Malaska Move' which he attributes to his mentor, Joe Nicols.



              you can see that the various stance and alignment lines are all working parallel to the target line..

              contrast that to how Shawn advocates taking a setup into a target picture and how it would look within the WIG system..

              and this video with a lesson - showing the concept(s) being put into practice



              and also please note the release of the lead arm - it's in the elbow..



              the 'straight line alignments' resulting optics and the release of the lead elbow are all very crucial to developing the physicality of his swing method ..

              so there are many concepts that are parallel to WIG or the same ..

              but it's how the stuff is put into practice and the drills used to provide awareness and mastery are based on different alignment and release concepts..

              Shawn and Mike are huge teaching talents and contribute significantly to the understanding of the great game, both are huge influences in my thinking ..

              hope these videos are of some help to all in understanding MM should you choose to take it on.

              cheers for now

              k_f

              from the hidden Ravine below 13th at CN G&CC
              tu nunquam hic

              Secret Swing Tech c/o Pigaman @ Crackpot Labs

              wisdomingolf.com/index.php?option=com_ku...&id=47972&Itemid=225

              let energy instead of style define you.

              Proud Member 'Quote Yourself Club'

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              • #9
                Hi guys,

                In regards to the "parallel lines" and do we set up to that OR to what we "see"???

                I recently found myself working with a young "man" (he just had his EIGTH birthday this past Thursday.... His name is Gardiner (RH player).

                This was not our first rodeo together, and I had noticed that he consistently seemed to "wiggle" into an alignment that was a full 25 degrees to the RIGHT of the "railroad tracks"?
                He then proceeded to PULL his shots well to the LEFT. Try as I might, I could not get him to "settle" into an alignment that appeared to be "correct"?

                At the conclusion of our session, I took the opportunity to share with his Mom the "issue" as I saw it....

                She indicated that it did not surprise her, because of Gardiner's EYESIGHT?
                (you see, Gardiner does wear somewhat aggressive glasses??)

                It took a bit of time/work, but I began to pay attention to Gardiner's setup/alignment and resultant ball directional launch...

                The more I ceased nagging him about his "alignment" and allowed him to set up based upon what he SAW?

                Ball launch direction improved immediately!

                Lesson learned; not for the student, but for the teacher.....

                Thanks, Gardiner!

                Be water, my friends
                dude abides

                "OLD" Forum Participation

                Entry Date: 18-JAN-2011
                Posts: 1813
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                "Be water, my friends"

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                • kid_fullerene
                  kid_fullerene commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Dude

                  quite a tale and I'm glad young Mr. Gardiner has found you as a Golf Mentor.. I suspect he will come to love the Great Game as much as you do. I would offer it this way.. we don't see with our eyes, but rather with our minds.. and we learn to see and organize information in certain ways. .. my speculation is that we all find a sort of 'logic' or 'visual syntax' to match our intention into our respective environments and of course our target pictures.. Maybe some of us need to work in parallel and impose a sort of grid over the world.. maybe some of us don't.. in my mind it becomes a function of what we choose to somehow 'automate'.. all life can give you are options, adjustments and trade-offs..

                  Structure is its own cruel mistress - but for some it may be the only way to have a reasonable chance at getting around for 18 holes..

                  For as important as understanding alignment and setup are relative to shot making and scoring .. it's amazing to me how little time I've spent trying to break it down and understand it beyond seeing it as sort of related to technique..

                  hope this conversation lights up some neurons in brains in addition to mine..

                  cheers

                  k_f

              • #10
                The old adage of "Form follows function" seems to hold true in golf if we let it. ;>)

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                • #11
                  Another thing I noticed is that Malaska talks a lot about motion and feels. He shows the motion and makes his students practice the motion and feel what it's like. Seems to be big in his teaching.

                  One of his comments I found interesting: "We haven't been very good as an industry. We haven't used other motions and patterns that people already know (e.g. other sports) and translate them into golf... It's a throw pattern... You already know how to do it."

                  Stumbled upon this video. Was struck by the similarity! And wouldn't dare to criticize Tiger for doing an over the top move from the inside ;-)

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                  • #12
                    Towel vs whip



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                    • #13
                      Another thing I noticed is that Malaska shows what you should do but also spends a fair amount of time explaining what you shouldn't do. Shawn emphasis is mainly on what you should do.



                      True, you wouldn't probably do all these moves if you swung to a target. However, being conscious and feel what's going on in your swing is a road to improvement.

                      Comment


                      • Ken Robie
                        Ken Robie commented
                        Editing a comment
                        I think the biggest difference between how Shawn teaches the golf swing and other golf teachers (notice I did not say golf coach) is the way in which he builds the foundation of the golf swing. By that I mean he tells you that as long as you are going to the target you can not screw it up! However the biggest caveat to that philosophy is the more reps you put in without relying on control and manipulation, the more refined the golf swing becomes. Regular golf teachers have refined their way of teaching to be more stream lined in achieving the desired results. Neither way is wrong, but the conventional way of teaching relies a lot on the learning and competency of the student.

                    • #14
                      How would one compare MM's technique to Homer Kelley's method of learning the golf swing (see below)? MM does use feel elements combined with using pivot positions and internal focus elements to learn his technique. But there is a lot fluidity in his arm/wrist release in the functional plane (wrist extension/flexion) which is dependent on proper rhythm.

                      But the video below is imho at the other end of the spectrum , where one is limiting wrist movement (ie. extension and flexion) to avoid timing errors before and though impact.




                      So for those who cannot consistently master the rhythm required for MM's move, or a fluid snapping hand release through impact, they might wish to consider the throwing of the 'Left Arm Flying Wedge' to a target. Use an 'external focus cue' by imagining that wedge formed between your lead arm/club and how it would need to be 'intact' while being thrown through impact for your intended outcome. I find the left arm flying wedge easier to imagine than the right arm one. The problem with this technique is you have to be quite flexible and get that right shoulder moving closer to the target , otherwise your right wrist will straighten before impact and break the 'left arm flying wedge'. However, if you are able to throw that intact 'wedge' so that the edge of the clubface 'cuts the dandelion' , then that should be sufficient to prevent the wedges breaking before impact.

                      I actually like the above wedge external focus idea because it incorporates WIG principles and a bit of physics and geometry (which makes sense to me but maybe not for others).


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                      • #15
                        Hi WIG Friends

                        MM put this video up recently and I thought it might provide an interesting contrast to a concept we know from WIG.. the Elephant Walk..

                        the difference between the sequences and keys are very apparent in these 2 videos..

                        here's the WIG Version.. 'step swing, step swing, step swing'




                        and here's the MM version of the drill..'hit, hit, hit, hit'



                        note which moves first..

                        and what follows..

                        here's one more contrast in terms of alignment.. Shawn 'Diagonal Stance'



                        MM .. Train Tracks..


                        I guess this might not seem like any sort of important distinction .. and while the respective teaching methods and focus have a great many similarities.. trying to bolt a 'Nichols Tip' to 'offset momentum' into a swing that is built to generate 'deep heavy lag' is not likely to work ..

                        they're built to the same end .. but from the alignment and setup out .. they're using the body and of course the golf club in a different fashion..

                        and it's not cosmetic - it's not the 'fashion show' ..

                        it's a physically different thing..
                        from the hidden Ravine below 13th at CN G&CC
                        tu nunquam hic

                        Secret Swing Tech c/o Pigaman @ Crackpot Labs

                        wisdomingolf.com/index.php?option=com_ku...&id=47972&Itemid=225

                        let energy instead of style define you.

                        Proud Member 'Quote Yourself Club'

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