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  • View this with an open mind and see what it does for you

    For those of you struggling with some of Shawn's concepts and analogies, take a look at this video and overlap the concepts and philosophies with Shawn's videos. Look past the fact that it is not Shawn speaking but focus on hearing Shawn's words in the message. Hope it helps some of you. Here is the link: https://youtu.be/nGAw-wOmgec?t=2052

  • #2
    I don't like what Malaska is teaching ( i have his book). as it relates to the downswing because he is teaching that one should manipulate the club. The hardest task that i had to learn with Wisdom in golf was to stop trying to manipulate the club ( a 30 year habit). If you can get yourself to focus on the task of swinging to target everything else falls into place. That is what makes Shawn's teaching so unique and difficult. Everyone else wants you to make a move to control your club and body actions. These moves never work as they are not repeatable or do that actually work. The reason I say that what Shawn teaches is difficult (it is actually very simple) is that as students we are not willing to accept the fact that we do not have to manipulate the golf club. We accept that in every other use of a tool such as an axe or a hammer but not with a golf club. Everyone is looking for the secret controlling move and the secret is actually that their is not secret move.

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    • #3
      Like I said above (not pointing fingers or trying to be condenscending here) But try to look for what you need in this video and not what you've already convinced yourself that you don't like.

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      • #4
        I do like that Malaska incorporates more WIG principles in his teaching rather than positions.

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        • #5
          From what I've learned about his swing instruction he is advocating feeling/responding to the dynamic weight of the club and that is quite reflective of WIG (although MM also thinks we need to redirect that dynamic weight) . From what I've read about critical analysis of his instruction (which took many hours to try and understand), it might benefit those who have problems pulling down too actively with their arms (ie. independent of their pivot action) towards the ball from the top of the backswing creating excessive forward clubshaft lean at impact with an open clubface. The MM move is apparently a very rotary type of swing where one is actively rotating one's forearms to swing the club on the 'functional plane' and is different to a 'throwing action' requiring better timing to get the clubface square (because it's a technique that tends to risk a higher rate of clubface closure). In essence, from what I've read and understood so far, the MM move is an OTT move from the inside.

          PS . The functional plane is.the lower half of that circle in the picture below.



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          Last edited by Schrodinger; 10-20-2018, 08:41 AM.

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          • #6
            Hi Ferko

            thanks for contributing those videos..they definitely are a great walk-through of MM..

            I would also contribute this one - which is a sort of schematic of his unique club tip aka 'Malaska Move' which he attributes to his mentor, Joe Nicols.



            you can see that the various stance and alignment lines are all working parallel to the target line..

            contrast that to how Shawn advocates taking a setup into a target picture and how it would look within the WIG system..

            and this video with a lesson - showing the concept(s) being put into practice



            and also please note the release of the lead arm - it's in the elbow..



            the 'straight line alignments' resulting optics and the release of the lead elbow are all very crucial to developing the physicality of his swing method ..

            so there are many concepts that are parallel to WIG or the same ..

            but it's how the stuff is put into practice and the drills used to provide awareness and mastery are based on different alignment and release concepts..

            Shawn and Mike are huge teaching talents and contribute significantly to the understanding of the great game, both are huge influences in my thinking ..

            hope these videos are of some help to all in understanding MM should you choose to take it on.

            cheers for now

            k_f

            from the hidden Ravine below 13th at CN G&CC
            tu nunquam hic

            Secret Swing Tech c/o Pigaman @ Crackpot Labs

            wisdomingolf.com/index.php?option=com_ku...&id=47972&Itemid=225

            let energy instead of style define you.

            Proud Member 'Quote Yourself Club'

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi guys,

              In regards to the "parallel lines" and do we set up to that OR to what we "see"???

              I recently found myself working with a young "man" (he just had his EIGTH birthday this past Thursday.... His name is Gardiner (RH player).

              This was not our first rodeo together, and I had noticed that he consistently seemed to "wiggle" into an alignment that was a full 25 degrees to the RIGHT of the "railroad tracks"?
              He then proceeded to PULL his shots well to the LEFT. Try as I might, I could not get him to "settle" into an alignment that appeared to be "correct"?

              At the conclusion of our session, I took the opportunity to share with his Mom the "issue" as I saw it....

              She indicated that it did not surprise her, because of Gardiner's EYESIGHT?
              (you see, Gardiner does wear somewhat aggressive glasses??)

              It took a bit of time/work, but I began to pay attention to Gardiner's setup/alignment and resultant ball directional launch...

              The more I ceased nagging him about his "alignment" and allowed him to set up based upon what he SAW?

              Ball launch direction improved immediately!

              Lesson learned; not for the student, but for the teacher.....

              Thanks, Gardiner!

              Be water, my friends
              dude abides

              "OLD" Forum Participation

              Entry Date: 18-JAN-2011
              Posts: 1813
              Thank You: 1048

              "Be water, my friends"

              Comment


              • kid_fullerene
                kid_fullerene commented
                Editing a comment
                Dude

                quite a tale and I'm glad young Mr. Gardiner has found you as a Golf Mentor.. I suspect he will come to love the Great Game as much as you do. I would offer it this way.. we don't see with our eyes, but rather with our minds.. and we learn to see and organize information in certain ways. .. my speculation is that we all find a sort of 'logic' or 'visual syntax' to match our intention into our respective environments and of course our target pictures.. Maybe some of us need to work in parallel and impose a sort of grid over the world.. maybe some of us don't.. in my mind it becomes a function of what we choose to somehow 'automate'.. all life can give you are options, adjustments and trade-offs..

                Structure is its own cruel mistress - but for some it may be the only way to have a reasonable chance at getting around for 18 holes..

                For as important as understanding alignment and setup are relative to shot making and scoring .. it's amazing to me how little time I've spent trying to break it down and understand it beyond seeing it as sort of related to technique..

                hope this conversation lights up some neurons in brains in addition to mine..

                cheers

                k_f

            • #8
              The old adage of "Form follows function" seems to hold true in golf if we let it. ;>)

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              • #9
                How would one compare MM's technique to Homer Kelley's method of learning the golf swing (see below)? MM does use feel elements combined with using pivot positions and internal focus elements to learn his technique. But there is a lot fluidity in his arm/wrist release in the functional plane (wrist extension/flexion) which is dependent on proper rhythm.

                But the video below is imho at the other end of the spectrum , where one is limiting wrist movement (ie. extension and flexion) to avoid timing errors before and though impact.




                So for those who cannot consistently master the rhythm required for MM's move, or a fluid snapping hand release through impact, they might wish to consider the throwing of the 'Left Arm Flying Wedge' to a target. Use an 'external focus cue' by imagining that wedge formed between your lead arm/club and how it would need to be 'intact' while being thrown through impact for your intended outcome. I find the left arm flying wedge easier to imagine than the right arm one. The problem with this technique is you have to be quite flexible and get that right shoulder moving closer to the target , otherwise your right wrist will straighten before impact and break the 'left arm flying wedge'. However, if you are able to throw that intact 'wedge' so that the edge of the clubface 'cuts the dandelion' , then that should be sufficient to prevent the wedges breaking before impact.

                I actually like the above wedge external focus idea because it incorporates WIG principles and a bit of physics and geometry (which makes sense to me but maybe not for others).


                Comment


                • #10
                  Hi WIG Friends

                  MM put this video up recently and I thought it might provide an interesting contrast to a concept we know from WIG.. the Elephant Walk..

                  the difference between the sequences and keys are very apparent in these 2 videos..

                  here's the WIG Version.. 'step swing, step swing, step swing'




                  and here's the MM version of the drill..'hit, hit, hit, hit'



                  note which moves first..

                  and what follows..

                  here's one more contrast in terms of alignment.. Shawn 'Diagonal Stance'



                  MM .. Train Tracks..


                  I guess this might not seem like any sort of important distinction .. and while the respective teaching methods and focus have a great many similarities.. trying to bolt a 'Nichols Tip' to 'offset momentum' into a swing that is built to generate 'deep heavy lag' is not likely to work ..

                  they're built to the same end .. but from the alignment and setup out .. they're using the body and of course the golf club in a different fashion..

                  and it's not cosmetic - it's not the 'fashion show' ..

                  it's a physically different thing..
                  from the hidden Ravine below 13th at CN G&CC
                  tu nunquam hic

                  Secret Swing Tech c/o Pigaman @ Crackpot Labs

                  wisdomingolf.com/index.php?option=com_ku...&id=47972&Itemid=225

                  let energy instead of style define you.

                  Proud Member 'Quote Yourself Club'

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    There's a lot to learn from MM because his approach contrasts with wig in several important ways.

                    MM plays the hand eye game whereas wig is more body/spacial awareness.

                    Good to experience both and see which approach works for you .
                    swing down the line

                    Comment


                    • kid_fullerene
                      kid_fullerene commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Wooltie ..

                      wow.. so great to see you back on the boards.!!
                      thought for sure you had ended up in Witness Protection..
                      glad to see that even if you have .. you periodically can get on to the internet..

                      hope to see you drop by again .. hope you're hitting them straight.. and if I do see you playing on an undisclosed Golf Course location ..

                      I'll just pretend I never knew you ..

                      cheers my friend

                      k_f

                  • #12
                    Hi guys,

                    Great to see you BACK, wooltie!
                    Hope we find that you're here to stay.

                    I don't believe that "hand-eye game" and "spacial awareness" need be, nor CAN be mutually exclusive?

                    As big an advocate as I am for our Chairman's approach, I cannot suggest that, as I'm executing the golf-shot, there is NO element of "hand-eye" action occurring?

                    I view it as a difference in FOCUS?

                    IMHO, "hand-eye" connotes an INTENTION to "hit" or make contact with something?
                    That tends to refer one's FOCUS to that which we are trying to "hit"?

                    In WIG, we do not "focus" on the "hit"?
                    But? I don't believe that we think that somehow magically the "hand-eye" instinct somehow magically evaporates?

                    We DO focus on delivering "motion-energy" towards our TARGET (to which we differentiate from that which we are trying to hit?)

                    The "collision" with the golf-ball becomes a BY-PRODUCT of our delivery to Target as a function of WHERE we have chosen to place our feet.

                    Love this place and you guys.
                    Great to have you back!

                    dude abides.
                    "OLD" Forum Participation

                    Entry Date: 18-JAN-2011
                    Posts: 1813
                    Thank You: 1048

                    "Be water, my friends"

                    Comment


                    • kid_fullerene
                      kid_fullerene commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Hi Dude -

                      so 'motion-energy' to target with a focus that is not at the ball .. not to derail or hijack this notion.. but I'm guessing that you might qualify as a 'swinger ' of the golf club vs. being a 'hitter' of the golf ball?

                      do you think that there are any successful 'hitter's' out there??

                      and if so, how do you think that they are finding success - and is it sustainable?

                      cheers for now

                      k_f

                  • #13
                    Dude -- it's like Lenin said...you find who benefits...and that sort of thing.

                    N - E - who........

                    I'll be a blunter version of myself, and hopefully some friends will find a rhyme or reason to keep me here rather than exiling me to the ravines of golf purgatory...

                    I don't really practice the WIG swing anymore or use it in the way that Shawn currently describes, or even in the classical "preacher man" videos of his youtube glory days. (My, has been since before I was married that I first stumbled upon the man talking crazy nonsense about hip rotation...think I was married in 2010...so that's some time, my friend!) I have had one on one lessons with Shawn twice.

                    I can make WIG work, especially off the tee. Proof is a youtube video my eldest son took during summer golf this year where all 6 years of of him learned to drive golf cart (yeah, I have kids now.) Here's a draw, but my stance is open to the 'target line' because I like my eye line, swing line and target line to be one and the same.

                    I'm just not wired to swing that way. I prefer a more MM approach where you 'swing the arms' and the 'body reacts', but you literally look at the ball and 'make a motion through the ball'. In this sense, the game is 'hand eye' rather than 'swinging to a target out there' (which is WIG's approach.)

                    WIG works. I won't debate that. It works. But I would argue that it may not work for everyone. A lot of people struggle with it, as I did, but I now know why I struggled with it and still do at times -- and the struggle is something I can't overcome with out A LOT of practice...

                    to the point that...

                    I'm just not wired to SEE IT that way.

                     
                    swing down the line

                    Comment


                    • #14
                      Hi Wooltie, Greetings WIG Friends Everywhere..

                      not only are you back - but a current swing video ..from your now much bigger son, who apparently can drive a cart and work a video camera..

                      that's a lot of forward progress !!

                      glad you're able to get out and also to take your Son.. it won't be too long before you and he will be wandering the Links together.. it's a great family game and clearly you have some lovely courses to get out and enjoy nature in..

                      that's the important thing - shared time together, chasing gravity and momentum, trying to find ways to get better and keeping each other going when the search seems futile and all seems lost..

                      The Swing looks pretty good, very relaxed and while I couldn't tell exact ball flight.. seems like you struck it solid and kept it in play.. which is at the level of a great many of us, the whole point of any shot..

                      You make an interesting point about 'not wired/not doing it in a WIG way' .. and instead, literally looking at or acquiring a sense of target in a more linear or visual way..

                      I'm interpreting that as a sort of 'train tracks' or parallel alignment .

                      That's clearly a distinction with how WIG would see or express alignment ..which is shown as Dynamic.. where one in essence walks into a shot seeing the club's relationship to target relative to the swing bottom..

                      I would speculate that it might be the difference between a more Arms Dominant Swing.. Shoulders/Arms Eyeline in a parallel with a more stable or 'following' lower core/lower body..

                      vs.

                      a More Body Dominant swing that generates a sort of 'walking/falling' action pattern with a dropping ACU with a whip bottoming out consistently that can be predicted and then aimed..

                      I'll have to find one of these - but it reminds me of a YouTube video where you have to find pictures of different things within a pattern, some people see certain things first, others see it differently ..

                      it also reminds me a little of this video at about 6:00 .. where he has students to close their eyes or look up from the ball and swing the club



                      the premise being that trying to impose the eye line on the action leads to trouble ..one has to feel the club in relation to the body..

                      I don't necessarily advocate this particular instructor or instruction .. simply that he is articulating out a pretty well known paradox in golf ... that is that when you stand sideways to your target/action/intention.. things get a bit complicated..

                      the interesting part of the game and the human dynamics/behaviors that surround it -- is that as seekers of 'golf truth' - we have to solve that problem for ourselves as best we can..

                      here's the 'animal illusion' thing I was mentioning earlier



                      yeah - I'm not real good at finding all the animals either .. and still not sure how it relates to golf, exactly.. but the premise is that potentially how you recognize and apply patterns to your reality (remember you sense with your brain.. which interprets.. not your senses which merely pass the information through)..

                      is going to greatly influence how you choose to respond to your 'puzzle' or challenge .. especially when you're standing sideways..

                      Am I right in assuming that in talking about how you're 'wired' and how you are now seeking a golf path where you can 'see' and 'stand to the line' that this is what you are describing?

                      hope there is still some green grass and warmer temps where you are.. nothing wrong with getting some 'bonus rounds' in if you can in 2018

                      cheers for now

                      k_f

                      from the hidden Ravine below 13th at CN G&CC
                      tu nunquam hic

                      Secret Swing Tech c/o Pigaman @ Crackpot Labs

                      wisdomingolf.com/index.php?option=com_ku...&id=47972&Itemid=225

                      let energy instead of style define you.

                      Proud Member 'Quote Yourself Club'

                      Comment


                      • #15
                        Yes, I swing on my eyeline. My eyeline is also my shoulder line. Pick the intermediate point to create the straight line to the target, then swing to the line and send the ball pretty darn straight down this line.

                        With WIG, you're swinging either left or right of the target line and fading or drawing the ball back to the target line.

                        ​​​​​​With WIG, the eyes don't really play the same role as in a hand-eye swing. The body, in particular the feel of the release in a direction, is what marries the action to the intention. Alignment is dynamic as you say because the feel of the moving body releasing in a direction is what tells you whether or not you're aligned.

                        I'm wired to use my eyes and vision instead of my body to marry action and intention. I look down at the line and swing to the line.

                        I suspect I'm not alone.
                        Last edited by wooltie; 11-20-2018, 11:42 AM.
                        swing down the line

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