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  • #16
    Hi wooltie…

    What governs your swing when you're making a PRACTICE swing?

    dude abides
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    Entry Date: 18-JAN-2011
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    • wooltie
      wooltie commented
      Editing a comment
      I make pmd type practice swings, but I swing to the straight line I see on the ground.

      Looking down at the line (the shortest distance on the ground between the ball and the intermediate point I selected,) I can tell if the pmd swing is to the right of, down, or to the left of the line. I use my eyes to tell where I'm aimed. I aim to swing down the line.

      I don't 'swing to a target out there' -- not because that approach doesn't work, indeed it does, it just doesn't really work for me.
      Last edited by wooltie; 11-20-2018, 02:03 PM.

  • #17
    So do you swing "directionally" relative to your "intermediate point"??
    If that's so......I don't see (no pun intended) the distinction?
    You're just swinging to a "target" that's a little CLOSER than mine?

    dude abides
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    • wooltie
      wooltie commented
      Editing a comment
      I see what you mean...I like your style Dude.

      I am swinging directionally, but I see the direction with my eyes -- I don't feel the direction with my body.

      You know how Shawn does that drill where you toss a golf ball with your hand to a spot 'out there'? Remember, he swings his arm in his golf posture then releases the ball out there? The move is based in part upon feeling a motion and directing the motion, but you're not actually looking at where you're throwing the ball.

      I'm seeing where the motion is relative to the target line e.g. going right, straight, left, then making that motion down the target line, looking at the ball, and putting the clubface through the ball.
      Last edited by wooltie; 11-20-2018, 04:44 PM.

    • kid_fullerene
      kid_fullerene commented
      Editing a comment
      I think it's almost time to consider a thread on visualization .. as I'm thinking that it may not be so much 'optics'.. but a conceptualization of how one is relating to the target and line and clubface relative to that line that is different somehow.. I think that 'abstraction' is likely at the heart of this .. as while there are things that end up in the same place and perhaps even are functionally pretty equivalent .. the sense of them seems to vary greatly .. but is still seemingly existing in schools of thought..

  • #18
    IMHO you are saying doing the exact same thing as Shawn is.

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    • wooltie
      wooltie commented
      Editing a comment
      I'm not sure I follow.

      Wig is about sending a body driven action either to the right or to the left of where you want the ball to end up, and you purposely draw or fade the ball.

      That's how the swing can 'feel like you're swinging way to the right' (because you actually are) yet the ball eventually works it's way to where you want it to stop e.g swing to the right of the green, draw to the pin; start the ball to the right, draw it back to the 'target'.
      Last edited by wooltie; 11-21-2018, 12:18 PM.

  • #19
    Ken, I agree with you that the swing is the same. It is the perception of how the swing occurs that is different.

    Wooltie, Shawn does talk about the dandelion stem under the ball that you are cutting. In fact, he says he is aware of the ball and he sees the ball when he sets up. He says that intention of the swing is to go down the line and through the ball at the intermediate target. However, he has his intermediate target set a bit right or left of a straight line through the ball ex: \ | /. The way I understand your swing intention is to go straight down a line through the ball.

    kid, I agree with you that a thread on just visualization is needed.

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    • #20
      Originally posted by wooltie View Post
      I'm not sure I follow.

      Wig is about sending a body driven action either to the right or to the left of where you want the ball to end up, and you purposely draw or fade the ball.

      That's how the swing can 'feel like you're swinging way to the right' (because you actually are) yet the ball eventually works it's way to where you want it to stop e.g swing to the right of the green, draw to the pin; start the ball to the right, draw it back to the 'target'.
      Hi Wooltie

      I'm not sure that this particular video speaks directly what you're trying to describe... but it might help provide a useful visualization/illustration ..

      from Shaun Webb/Golf Gears - and what's cool is that he is showing this from overhead (very useful) 'bone view' (very WIG) and with a rotational more lower /mid core type swing (applicable)

      so you can see that from overhead - the drop of the club works under the initial takeaway path .. and drops a bit 'inside' and works apparently 'out' relative to the head position of the golfer.



      there are a couple things that would have been cool/useful to see..

      if Shaun had shown the hands working in towards the turned hips post impact .. that might help a connect a useful mental dot or two for some ..

      the other .. and this is a bit tough to see from the overhead angle .. but a notion of where the clubhead is at the 'top' of the backswing and then where it 'drops' .. as that is particularly relevant to it being on the 'gravity path' where the 'around and out' suddenly works like a charm..

      for you ..

      what might be a bit illuminating is to look at the model golfer's head/eye position in this sequence.. from where the eyes are .. and relative to the action .. it establishes a frame of reference .. so one's perception of apparent action and one's mentality in terms of trying to experience it in an an organized way is now fully in play.

      my belief is that one has to make a choice of what you're going to work with ..

      in WIG - one of the 'out of the ways' (separate thread...maybe I'll bring some of this over there) is to perceive the swing action being through and towards the target and the ball just gets collected.. sort of a 'line of action' that I think you're describing as being curved back into the target (simply a matter of degree)

      to see a 'straight line' or 'straight line action' relative to the ball is to become 'ball focused' and to lose the action..

      what I'd offer is that the 'initial straight line' is a powerful organizing principle mentally .. and it's very hard to let go of .. and I also believe that there are swings and methodologies (including Mike Malaska) that work with that 'parallel left aka Train Tracks' alignment .. which in my mind exists differently from the original WIG concepts..

      the dynamism and prediction needed along with the visualizations that exist in that context are hallmarks of WIG .. and it absolutely works..

      the threshold .. is whether one is able to make the jump to it .. effectively letting go or allowing the 'straight line visualization' to be replaced by a different concept.

      this also goes to my notes or attempted efforts on Visualizations differing by method.. (separate thread) ..

      but thanks to your question/comment/observations - I have a model that I can at least attempt to speak to and demonstrate what I feel are the distinctions..

      the whole upshot of this is that ..

      it isn't necessarily easy to do .. you have articulated a few times how your mind sees it as lines .. and you found a way to put your sense of action on the line where the ball is as a more effective model for you..

      I can't help but wonder how many more frustrated golfers are out there - who also, for whatever reason(s) can't make the 'leap of faith' over to seeing it 'dynamically' or as movement organizing the model .. vs having a model that organizes the movement..

      half empty /half full ..

      sometimes it's just a matter of how one chooses to perceive things..

      I'm thankful that you choose to speak your truth .. and hope that your golf journey is a a good one next year and the years beyond.. and that you also choose to share your journey with us.

      cheers

      k_f
      from the hidden Ravine below 13th at CN G&CC
      tu nunquam hic

      Secret Swing Tech c/o Pigaman @ Crackpot Labs

      wisdomingolf.com/index.php?option=com_ku...&id=47972&Itemid=225

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      • #21
        Good thinking but it seems very arms focused. The piece would like to add for any rookies is... Start your swing by rotating your hips but keep the arms and shoulders back for a milli second and once your hips clear the shoulders arms and hands will unwind naturally and swing. It'll also allow you to get the shaft lean everyone wants and we can finally use our hands and press down into impact and momentum will pull you thru into the pose.

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