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  • Backswing ala heavy axe

    It is so easy to use the wrists to move the clubhead backwards from adress.
    Consequently the shaft and the left arm are immediately no longer in line.
    I see it much too often.

    Do you remember the heavy axe drill from Shawn?

    Holding the axe in front of the body, the axe is pointing nearly 90 degrees right. The initial move follows pretty good that direction and during the backswing, the ACU follows that plane.
    That leads easily to the desired steep backswing, not behind the body.

    It may be a good plan, to imagine to perform the backswing like the heavy axe, despite the club is on the ground at adress as normal.

    I tested that with two guys with the typical issue to swing too much to the inside, with great success.

  • #2
    Hi Alpine -

    as I review these classic WIG videos - a couple things strike me

    1. the grip is critical to the success of this drill and the swing that it's trying to help you build awareness of. The wrists are set to unhinge in a specific way relative to the drop and fall into the release.. Might be worth putting your grip videos/ and insights (at least some of them!) into this thread for a reference.

    2. the motion of this drill works best if you have a clear sense of what your target focus is .. it's motion/momentum relative to target picture and intention.. Might also be worth putting a marker down or intermediate target to help your brain 'light up' with the heavy axe working through something ..on its way to someplace..

    3. and the elephant walk drill to maybe be a complementary drill or motion pattern to help put the movement of your stance and weight dynamically into your concept of this ..

    not that you need any help or suggestions from me .. lol ..

    but I believe that the WIG ideas work best in a sort of dynamic thinking/concept .. and perhaps as a sort of combined exercise... or associated later to a sort of 'analogous task' to keep it filed in one's mind.

    cheers

    k_f
    from the hidden Ravine below 13th at CN G&CC
    tu nunquam hic

    Secret Swing Tech c/o Pigaman @ Crackpot Labs

    wisdomingolf.com/index.php?option=com_ku...&id=47972&Itemid=225

    let energy instead of style define you.

    Proud Member 'Quote Yourself Club'

    Comment


    • #3
      Absolutely.

      My Intention of the thread was not something for the entire swing (like Shawn in the video), but to highlight/avoid a typical shortcut (inside) as a good basis for everything that comes little later.

      Comment


      • kid_fullerene
        kid_fullerene commented
        Editing a comment
        Alpine

        right there with you - and it makes absolute sense, I know that you have done some extensive thinking and work on these related elements.. so even at the risk of 'mission' or 'concept creep' .. I hope that looking at this drill in context helps WIG friends and Guests .. find things that can help them better use this drill and/or find 'next steps' if needed to make their swings better ..
        and it would be interesting to see which additional 'swing dots' you would connect .. you have a great logical mind!
        cheers

        k_f

    • #4
      Hey guys,

      Taking the club inside with an instant manipulation is still something I am working on removing. I agree that the heavy axe/sledgehammer drill and also the kettlebell drill is helpful. Let me know if you are seeing what I do in that first foot back and that rolling manipulation of the club ??
       

      Comment


      • #5
        Hi Rob

        the Swing looks good - nice power and balance .

        can't tell what kind of ball flight you are getting .. but the contact appears to be good and the sound seems good.

        my guess on why you might be having your hands seemingly working 'in' relative to your stance is that they seem a bit forward (could be the angle of the camera) ..

        almost like you have your hand position at address is like it would be for an iron - but further forward in keeping with the ball off the lead heel ..

        this may not work for you ... but often .. the hand position for driver would still be more in the center .. and relative to where the ball position is and clubhead ..

        can be thought of as being the one club where the handle is effectively 'behind' the ball.

        so if I'm even close to being 'on target' with this ..

        your hands working a bit 'in' , might well be them just working a bit to where they might be at address ..

        the other thing that strikes me is that with your stance and head tilt.. is that 'straight', especially if working back towards the center - might be a bit inside, assuming you're working down your eyeline..

        like I said, mostly guesswork ..

        I might have you try and mark out the center of your stance, where your arms would naturally drop .. and then where your ball position is for long irons/woods and then driver..

        I think it might give you some understanding of how you're working the driver grip and hand position a bit more forward that what you might need to ..

        I also think that if you get that right .. the driver head will work a bit more upwards on its own rather than needing a bit of help in the swing..

        keep it at it .. lots of good things going on with your siwng..

        cheers for now

        k_f
        from the hidden Ravine below 13th at CN G&CC
        tu nunquam hic

        Secret Swing Tech c/o Pigaman @ Crackpot Labs

        wisdomingolf.com/index.php?option=com_ku...&id=47972&Itemid=225

        let energy instead of style define you.

        Proud Member 'Quote Yourself Club'

        Comment


        • #6
          Hi Rob

          just for reference sake ..and I'll stipulate that there are different angles involved here .. but look at the hands and clubhead of Shawn relative to ball position vs. where yours are..

          basically the setups and swings are pretty similar.. look at around the 7:00min mark



          athletically you're in great shape with all this..

          I think your battle(s) are probably in your setup and getting your confidence about where you want the energy of the swing to go..

          hope it's of some help

          cheers

          k_f

          from the hidden Ravine below 13th at CN G&CC
          tu nunquam hic

          Secret Swing Tech c/o Pigaman @ Crackpot Labs

          wisdomingolf.com/index.php?option=com_ku...&id=47972&Itemid=225

          let energy instead of style define you.

          Proud Member 'Quote Yourself Club'

          Comment


          • #7
            Thanks Kid! You remind me of how when I had a lesson with Shawn and he was hitting driver how I perceived the arc of his swing as more centered than mine and then on the way UP at the ball. Time to revisit that and wish I would have locked it in right then!!

            i am really working on that first quarter of the “backswing” because of the manipulation but also see my head movement from the face on view. Then it’s - Goodbye tilt! Regain tilt! Try to sustain tilt!

            Will keep grinding and thanks again.

            Comment


            • #8
              Originally posted by Robsilly View Post
              Thanks Kid! You remind me of how when I had a lesson with Shawn and he was hitting driver how I perceived the arc of his swing as more centered than mine and then on the way UP at the ball. Time to revisit that and wish I would have locked it in right then!!

              i am really working on that first quarter of the “backswing” because of the manipulation but also see my head movement from the face on view. Then it’s - Goodbye tilt! Regain tilt! Try to sustain tilt!

              Will keep grinding and thanks again.
              Hi Rob

              thanks for giving my ramble a 'listen' and some consideration ..

              and also appreciate you sharing what your experiences and thought process is around the swing.

              that helps me make a bit more sense of what I think I'm seeing..

              if you're getting a sort of 'head movement' in and out of what you achieve as a 'tilted head starting position' ..

              what I think that is - or at least what I think I'm seeing .. is that you're setting up and working in some kind of parallel or 'train tracks' alignment . and what into a sort of 'squaring of the clubhead' through the hitting area..

              so . you have a sense of 'working inside' and then 'needing to work back 'outside' or square' to the line..

              this relates (at least in my mind) to a piece of the WIG swing technique/philosophy that can be a steeper hill for some of us to climb than others. That whole sense of being 'dynamically square' to the 'target' and 'aiming the action'..





              and this whole conversation can take on a life of its own if allowed - so in the interest of brevity .. maybe just map out how you are relating to sending energy to your target .. that's to say what YOUR target acquisition and 'energy system' is and how you're setting up.. vs. How Shawn is describing his and compare notes.

              and when I say 'map out' .. put it down on the ground .. so that you've built what your target and stance lines are and how your club sits relative to the ball and the target.. vs. how Shawn/WIG is describing or mapping his..

              I'm fairly confident that you'll spot the difference pretty fast ..

              and it's right back to the WIG notion of being 'open to the line' but 'square to the target' or 'dynamically square' ..

              once you start to see it .. you'll have more of a notion of what concepts you're working with ..

              cheers for now

              k_f
              from the hidden Ravine below 13th at CN G&CC
              tu nunquam hic

              Secret Swing Tech c/o Pigaman @ Crackpot Labs

              wisdomingolf.com/index.php?option=com_ku...&id=47972&Itemid=225

              let energy instead of style define you.

              Proud Member 'Quote Yourself Club'

              Comment


              • kid_fullerene
                kid_fullerene commented
                Editing a comment
                what I think I see in your swing video during your setup .. is you working really hard to establish a sense of 'squareness' or squaring along your stance and aim lines and a grip that fits that .. and then tilting/turning.. which takes you a bit out of your established lines.. I think that physical and mental 'handoff' is likely at the 'root' of your later head movement during the swing.. the summary is that I don't think that you can physically stop moving your head during your swing .. in that it's 'baked into' how you are seeing and relating to the action to target.

              • Robsilly
                Robsilly commented
                Editing a comment
                Wow! Between your excellent observations and this video of Shawn (a rare one I had not seen) I am realzing A LOT. So here goes...(also, I am a noob to forums so hopefully just doing this as a reply is forum friendly lol)

                1) Yes, you are absolutely correct on my alignment process. I was self-taught and so there are a lot of old remnants and misperceptions buried deep inside that I am still trying to rid myself of. Yes, I am CAREFULLY setting up my alignment, with the use of an IT, in a parallel railroad tracks system to get all of my BODY PARTS in a SQUARE position to the perceived target and alignment lines. I am a backhander, lefty playing righty, so the optics and eye alighment, all the way down to putting, are a challenge for me for whatever reason.

                1.5) By the way, I see the setup and golf swing in STRAIGHT LINES and not an ARC.. No wonder I sway laterally or what I call Rocking and Blocking with the Driver especially and forgetting I should TURN my body OUT OF THE WAY..

                2) After I setup, and to your point, I then add the tilt and 20/20 head position to my STATIC setup. This is extremely problematic when trying to play a draw because if I'm understanding you and Shawn right I now have conflicting alighment and focus intentions? I "get behind the hit" for the draw and feel way too closed and can't access the ground in front of the ball.

                3) Since I am a backhander the Slash the Sword drill and throwing clubs drills seem to help get me back on track and OUT TO THE TARGET. After watching this video and reviewing my swing clip I seem to stall at the ball and I don't chicken wing my left arm, but I sort of reverse crash into my rib cage as Shawn illustrates at 8:38. Especially true with pitches and touch shots where I am trying to be too CAREFUL and placing the clubhead to the ball.

                4) Back to the original idea of the heavy axe and lumberjack. I went through a spell of shanking the ball a long time ago in years but possibly still fresh in the psyche. Unfortunately, I learned/taught myself at the time that if I released early and flipped the club at impact (and probaly crashing my left arm into my ribcage...) I would not hit a shank. I *think* this still is robbing me of lag and compression by my conscious mind wanting to CAREFULLLY square the club face early at the ball versus the feeling of the lumberjack's hands leading the handle of the instrument and finally the blade delivering the blow. My lumberjack swing has the bony part of my left elbow facing the target deep into the action versus at my left hip with a CAREFUL and stalled early release if that makes sense?

                I believe I have the athleticism and basic fundamentals to play golf well but it really is a game of changing my focus and perceptions and why I am so happy to have found Shawn and WIG. Evolve from being process-focused to task-focused and let my CNS and instincts take control. None of this is taught anywhere else!

                Ok, let me know your thoughts and hopefully this all makes sense. Thanks again Kid!

            • #9
              So, am interesting update from the range today. I mentioned how hitting a draw and perturning messes with my brain. Well, and I don’t remember what video this is from, but I decided to move the back back off my right toe and get behind it. My brain was screaming at me how I was going to hit it 40 yards right and guess what... a baby draw to my target?! My ACU followed my shoulders in and so I need to work on letting them swing with gravity instead but Is it just a matter of WIG 101 with a brace and preturn until I really have that draw mastered, especially as a backhander. Slowly move the ball to a more center position as my brain gets used to the optics and “heresy”??

              https://youtu.be/yJ6irIk3Skg

              Comment


              • kid_fullerene
                kid_fullerene commented
                Editing a comment
                Rob

                good stuff Sir!

                if you're working a bit 'optically' - you can also drop a further target, intermediate target and mark out your stance and target lines.. (I also drop in a mid line so I know where the center of my swing is relative to my stance) .. and then build a sense of where I am relative to where I'm aligned.. and intending to get the force going towards..

                that's me .. might not necessarily help you - but if you're trying to build a new frame of reference .. sometimes you have to do a bit of construction so that you can get a sense of what this looks like when it works..

                not everybody goes through this .. some people can just sort of 'aim the action' .. and they're lucky and I completely admire their ease ..

                sometimes it's all about working with what you've got..

                keep at it good sir!

                keep some notes .. sometimes what seems clear at a session or the walk back to your car can get a bit hazy upon further recall.. it has happened to me ..

                cheers

                k_f

              • kid_fullerene
                kid_fullerene commented
                Editing a comment
                and I finally hit the video .. looking and sounding very crisp.. that's a jump in progress! I'm not saying that this will help.. but one way you could think about your setup is that 'you become the arc' so that you can basically just work back and through . or 'up and down' relative to the line .. the old 'let it fall' .. as the turn is already baked in.. I've got to dig out the dynamic alignment stuff that Shawn had posted.. kind of wishing that Gary and Cally were back around as they have better command of the video pool than what I do .. but the aiming thing comes into play with this ..

                cheers

                k_f

            • #10
              Hi Rob

              thanks again for your continued indulgence in considering my rambles..

              in reviewing your response(s) you clearly have command of what you're working towards and where you've been ..

              those are both very important things..

              I'll circle back to all of that in a moment - and I realize that this is about the 'heavy axe'..and I also realize that this is a bit of 'big tangent'..

              but did you ever have any occasion or interest in trying the 'battering ram' analogy instead?

              I can't help but wonder based on what I think I'm getting from how you're working your swing that this might fire up a few neurons in your nervous system..



              that might well connect your 'backhand' to your weight shift and make it work more FOR you as opposed to something that you're trying to overcome..

              a couple things to follow as I noodle around on this some more..

              cheers for now

              k_f
              from the hidden Ravine below 13th at CN G&CC
              tu nunquam hic

              Secret Swing Tech c/o Pigaman @ Crackpot Labs

              wisdomingolf.com/index.php?option=com_ku...&id=47972&Itemid=225

              let energy instead of style define you.

              Proud Member 'Quote Yourself Club'

              Comment


              • #11
                Yeah, we will see what the next practice session brings but I am going to stay with this and see where it evolves to. I have tried the battering ram and at the time it led to more of a block but want to take another look. Other video I will revolt is the heavy farm hammer is that was how my backhand side felt earlier doing this drill. Will advise!

                Comment


                • #12
                  Hi Rob

                  came upon this video from Shawn speaking directly to alignment and visualization ..

                  hoping it might be of some help with you working in parallel lines and intermediate points in your setup..



                  Intention and alignment are critical to getting the results you're working so hard for .

                  cheers for now

                  k_f
                  from the hidden Ravine below 13th at CN G&CC
                  tu nunquam hic

                  Secret Swing Tech c/o Pigaman @ Crackpot Labs

                  wisdomingolf.com/index.php?option=com_ku...&id=47972&Itemid=225

                  let energy instead of style define you.

                  Proud Member 'Quote Yourself Club'

                  Comment


                  • #13
                    Originally posted by Alpineberlinette View Post
                    It is so easy to use the wrists to move the clubhead backwards from adress.
                    Consequently the shaft and the left arm are immediately no longer in line.
                    I see it much too often.

                    Do you remember the heavy axe drill from Shawn?

                    Holding the axe in front of the body, the axe is pointing nearly 90 degrees right. The initial move follows pretty good that direction and during the backswing, the ACU follows that plane.
                    That leads easily to the desired steep backswing, not behind the body.

                    It may be a good plan, to imagine to perform the backswing like the heavy axe, despite the club is on the ground at adress as normal.

                    I tested that with two guys with the typical issue to swing too much to the inside, with great success.
                    You have done it entirely great! Impressive!

                    Comment

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