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  • No Arms Swinging Around You

    Hi Everyone, As so many of you have confirmed here, the arms do not swing around you during your backswing. Y'all have also confirmed that the arms do not swing around you on your through swing or downswing. As you turn out of the way, you should allow the arms to rise in the backswing and you should get out of the way again to allow your arms to fall in front of you during your through swing or downswing. So let us all say it together, "no swinging of the arms around you during your golf swing" Thanks, Gary

  • #2
    Here's another to say together which complements what Gary said above. " The Shoulders Do Not Turn' .

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm with you Gary. "no swinging of the arms around you during your golf swing!"

      Before becoming a WIG disciple I was researching Jim Waldron from Oregon's arm swing illusion philosophy . He has many videos on YouTube and many true believers on the wrx forums. The arm swing illusion video is very enlightening if you're curious at all.

      Mr. Waldron submits that the 2d view of the golf swing on film has led us to believe that the arms move around the body. But in fact they actually move more vertically while the body turns horizontally. He compares it to rubbing your belly while patting your head. His philosophy is much more toward internal focus in learning positions away from the range/course and target focus when hitting balls.

      I think WIG echos some of the arm swing illusion stuff but it exceeds in actually transferring knowledge to improving your swing. I've gained so much confidence since I found WIG. Playing tomorrow afternoon and I'm anticipating a great round!

      Comment


      • Gary
        Gary commented
        Editing a comment
        Hi Burkey,

        I have seen this video before on this Forum. I posted it below so others here can also watch it.

        Thanks,

        Gary

        https://youtu.be/ASH06DwHaRw

      • Burkey
        Burkey commented
        Editing a comment
        Thanks Gary.

    • #4
      Great video and the frustrating thing is I still tend to drift into the bad old ways when thinking about the golf swing. Its almost like my brain just can't accept it especially when I see golfers swing on TV. I suspect a good simple swing thought to retain and remember Waldron's video is to swing your hands up and down from ear to ear.

      Comment


      • #5
        Way to go Gary. Shawn mentions the arms lifting in the back swing as well, I think he says "levitating", but that Jim Waldron video certainly does clarify the idea. Your arms certainly do not swing around your body. The arms only swing up, down and back up while the body turns.

        Comment


        • #6
          @Shrodinger.

          Im at a stage where my brain cant understand what is going on anymore. I shot 3 over par yesterday night and I honestly say that I couldnt explain how the golf swing works. All I am doing is swinging to target in the same way as throwing the club to target. Fall and swing. For some reason t I dont understand how it works. My brain actually tells me it shouldnt work. BUT Im very confident in what im trying to achieve but how it works im still not sure.

          What 'bakes my noodle' (matrix phrase for confuses me) is how on earth my old swing even worked at all?? I mean first time I threw a club (in fact it took me four throws to launch it flagwards) it was way left (yet I could still shoot 12 over????????).

          I used to think I was pretty technical minded. But im not. The one thing I do understand is ball flight face/path etc. The only other thing going for me was natural sports ability that allowed me to recognise an 'aha' moment and have faith in it.

          Im like a person who has been taught by Shawn to press a light switch. I know that if I want light I press the switch. In all honesty I dont know how the switch produces electricity though it and how it gets there and I have a vague idea of how a lightbulb works but thats it. So if I want light I flick the switch. I think many good golfers are in this category. If you can hit fairways and greens and get yourself out of the odd bit of trouble then single figs are assured. I think for the next level I might need to have a technical chat with Shawn. Something on a skype level perhaps.

          I never would have got anywhere without the throwing of the club. (so that means without Shawns videos). I cant stress that enough.

          Even in all this I wonder if I still have a big compensation going on somewhere because I cant throw the club backwards in the same way Shawn does on the backswing still make it work.


          Comment


          • kid_fullerene
            kid_fullerene commented
            Editing a comment
            GM

            congratulations on your progress - 3 Over is a wonderful score, and clearly it's all going in the proper direction..keep at it.. I'm not sure how much you need to know beyond what you 'know' if you're hitting fairways and greens..the rest is all pretty much 50 yards in..which I suspect you can also rise to the challenge of. The slope on this is an interesting one..your 'aha' moments have helped you identify and own your swing..it now becomes something around whether or not you want to own your process..your process of learning and potentially teaching..that I cannot advise you on..but there are so many ways to give back to the game ..and I'm sure you'll find the one that works best..

            cheers for now

            k_f

        • #7
          @Burkey.

          I have seen the Waldron vidoes and understand his arm swing illusion thing. The danger in that technique is that it will have you chopping at the ball. Pulls, pushes and if you get mega choppy thick shots. The arms infront and the initial drop are good thoughts tho but its fraught with danger. If it rids you of a lateral swing thought then thats a good start i suppose.

          Comment


          • Schrodinger
            Schrodinger commented
            Editing a comment
            Yes, whenever I've thought about about an intended position or forced myself to try and 'feel' something specific, it kills my kinetic sequence. Having some basic knowledge of the mechanics of the swing is probably a good idea if you want to avoid injury/strain but then it all boils down to being relaxed , feeling the dynamic weight of the club and focusing on sending the momentum to a target in balance and without strain.

        • #8
          Hi guys,

          I always liked this view of how the arms swing up and down while the body gets out of the way . . .

          Comment


          • #9
            Hi Kid. I have emailed Shawn for a one on one facetime. I have a few big questions I need 100% accurate advice on. Some of it on putting. Im waiting for a reply. I'll let you know how it goes.

            I have loads I still need to know. I still have real problems playing a cut shot. I can get it straight but mostly is slight draw. I know the science requires a face open between path and target but im not getting it to move. Ive seen his video on it but im not getting it.

            Its funny how people strive for a draw when a power fade really is the best and in my opinion most beautiful shot in golf. Anyone see Rory's 5 wood 247 yards to win the irish open? Truly stunning.

            Comment


            • #10
              See the video in my latest newsletter with my lesson with John; we talk about using momentum to SAW THROUGH THE DANDELION STEM TO THE LEFT OF THE TARGET FROM HEEL TO TOE; which is a great visual and this is what did it for him and many other students of mine;
              as for the videos that would work best for what you giys are talking about here are "arms and body timing part 1"; the one cally put in here and the one called "free swinging arms shawn clement"
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSeX4e9zOz8
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrramwPElBo

              Comment


              • #11
                I see more of the Waldron idea than this Monty idea in the swing.

                Comment


                • #12
                  I would suggest that Waldrons description still works with this knee shot from Sadlowski.

                  I like Waldrons explanation of the lift in the backswing to justify the undisputed fall in the downswing. At 0.12 you can see the lift in the backswing even in Jamie's off the knee swing.


                  @2.42 Monty says 'take a full backswing'. Is that really his full backswing. I very much doubt it. That is his full backswing without the 'lift'. It is the lift element that will get you in trouble if you have an arms around the body feel. In my opinion its arms in front of the body.

                  But im no expert and welcome the debate.




                  Comment


                  • #13
                    Since converting to the WIG technique, I do not watch or read other resources regarding the golf swing. I did at first and it just confused me. I don't want to sound that I am drink the WIG Cool-Aid... yet since going exclusive to WIG I've shot three low scores in the past few weeks that are the lowest that I've had in the past year. My 2 cents of advice would be to be careful trying to mix other golf instruction with WIG. Just sharing my experiences...

                    Comment


                    • #14
                      Been looking at the Waldron illusion vs the Sheinblum video and it seems (imho) like we have 2 techniques because of different body biomechanics.

                      1. Waldron illusion works for those that have a steep downswing plane cutting through their shoulder line ( ie. whose forearms are longer than their upper arms) and who prefer to hinge their wrists in a vertical manner.
                      2. Scheinblum video seems to apply to those who have a more shoulder line swing plane (or below shoulder line) . This would suit someone whose forearms are shorter than their upper arms and who prefer to hinge their wrists in a diagonal or horizontal manner.

                      I always thought that the wrist hinge was virtually the same for all humans but my books say otherwise . People do hinge their wrists differently when trying to get the optimal leverage between the club and forearms (see list below). Therefore what we are seeing are 2 valid techniques to swing the golf club (and considering there are 450 quadrillion ways to swing a golf club, not that surprising).

                      Vertical Hingers: Harry Vardon, Hale Irwin, Johnny Miller, Nick Price, Colin Montgomerie, Fred Couples, Davis Love III, David Toms, Ernie Els, Tim Clark
                      Horizontal Hingers : Ben Hogan, Arnold Palmer, Lee Trevino, Moe Norman, Tom Watson, Bernhard Langer, Paul Azinger, Tom Lehman, David Duval, Justin Leonard
                      Diagonal Hingers: Byron Nelson, Jack Nicklaus, Mickey Wright, Greg Norman, Nick Faldo, Payne Stewart, Steve Elkington, Vijay Singh, Tiger Woods.




                      Comment


                      • #15
                        Wow! I finally get it and think this thread should be pinned and mandatory reading lol!

                        I initially had to reread Gary and Schrodinger's comments because of the 'remnants of faulty golf instruction' buried deep inside my head. The arms and shoulders don't turn?! 🤔

                        After listening to Butch Harmon say to "let the left arm swing across your chest" and even wearing Leadbetter's connection strap gadget , I think I finally understand the ACU and how it works. Also explains why I have had success with slashing the sword and am now working on the lumberjack drill.

                        amazing stuff guys and why I am on here continuing to learn .

                        Comment


                        • Schrodinger
                          Schrodinger commented
                          Editing a comment
                          If you lack flexibility between pelvis/torso (like me) , they both turn virtually together. Here is a nice video by Shawn which might interest you.

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od9dI5Wrkfo

                          In my full WIG swing , I don't actually feel much pressure between my upper lead arm and left pec area (ie. no X-factor stretch).

                          However , I've been experimenting with short chips/pitches by having a bit of pressure between left upper arm and pec to create clubhead speed over a shorter distance for shots out of rough (a bit of a change from my usual WIG chipping/pitching technique which required a much longer swing path to create clubhead speed). Jury still out on whether this will work consistently for me or not.
                          Last edited by Schrodinger; 2 weeks ago.
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