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Today's learning: Can't have gravity in only one direction

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  • Today's learning: Can't have gravity in only one direction

    Spent some time at the range today and came upon another "aha" moment. As with most of my "aha" moments, it was another thing which should have been obvious. It's something better players don't even think about because they never thought to do it any other way.

    Here it is:

    You can't use gravity in only one direction.

    That is to say, you can't give up control and feel that tug on your shoulder sockets in the through swing if you didn't feel it in the backswing. Shawn talks constantly about the need to feel the weight of the arm-club unit in the backswing, and the need to get "Bubba wide." If you're not doing those things, then you're controlling the club in the backswing. You will not feel the centripetal force pulling the club away from you body. When you start the through swing, you'll still be controlling the club. If all your timing works out well, you might still hit a decent shot. However, you will NOT experience the effortless power of the true WIG swing.

    Make sure you are letting go of control in both directions and feel that club pulling away from you both in the backswing and the through swing (a term I like more than downswing).
    Last edited by wadesworld; 03-18-2017, 06:02 PM.

  • #2
    Hi guys,

    Great observations and advice from wade...I agree completely.

    Decent amount of discussion (maybe in our blessed and now deceased "Old Forum") about the difference between "TOSS" and "PLACE" in the back-swing...
    A player can make EITHER work pretty well. Me? I'm a "tosser"...

    But, at the end of the day (IMHO) it all comes down to "who" or "what" is responsible for the TRANISITION; that is the "change-of-direction" in the swing?

    Do WE, as player EXECUTE (or CAUSE/CREATE) that change-of-direction....

    or - do we ALLOW GRAVITY to perform the change-of-direction FOR us?

    As "godfather-of-gravity", I'm bound by Tribal Law to favor the latter. "...As it is written; so shall it be done..." (bonus points for the author of the quote?)

    If we allow Gravity the freedom to execute the change of direction, that "pull" on the shoulder-sockets to which wade referred is assured.

    I also SECOND wade's nomination to banish the term DOWNSWING!

    I, too like "THROUGH-swing" much better.

    Gravity is better at that "down" thing than we'll ever be.....

    dude abides
    "OLD" Forum Participation

    Entry Date: 18-JAN-2011
    Posts: 1813
    Thank You: 1048

    "Be water, my friends"

    Comment


    • #3
      Currently I place the club in the back swing but hope to graduate to a toss. As a result of placing the club I feel I have to create the change of direction. This is intentional though as I've changed my swing thought to begin throwing the club from the top of the downswing instead of letting the club fall and then throw to the target. This is working well for me right now.

      That said, I vote to change the the term DOWNSWING to THROWSWING :-D

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by bull View Post
        Currently I place the club in the back swing but hope to graduate to a toss. As a result of placing the club I feel I have to create the change of direction. This is intentional though as I've changed my swing thought to begin throwing the club from the top of the downswing instead of letting the club fall and then throw to the target. This is working well for me right now.

        That said, I vote to change the the term DOWNSWING to THROWSWING :-D
        Hi Bull, Hola WIG Friends Everywhere..

        from Momentum to Gravity and then back again ..or Gravity into Momentum into...

        well..you get what I'm saying ..

        we've seen the Chairman talk about directing momentum.. if not, it's worth a look again..

        and then a discussion of 'cycles of momentum' -- also part of any worthwhile pursuit and discussion of the mysteries of one's golf swing..

        and let me drag an old statement from Max (such a great contributor to the 'old' forum way back 'when'..

        'there's a lot of ways to get this done..'

        let that one just sort of sit there for a moment and consider..

        ponder on it ..

        what did he possibly mean - and for those of us who don't have an exact recollection of Max - he's a subject matter expert on athletic motion(s) and is a big part of the University of Virginia 'Speed Clinic' (if I recall its name )

        I lack his expertise - but like many of us - did benefit from his insights and contributed wisdom..

        so ..I can't tell you exactly what I meant - but I'll give you my best take on it..

        and here's the short of it as to how it might apply to you (or might not..)

        you many not necessarily need to 'graduate' to a 'toss' for you to enjoy a good golf swing ..or at least one that you can predict the bottom of..

        and if you have a means of getting the club back through the ball and conceive of it as a 'throw' - and it is working to a place where you're shooting in the 80s ...you may work past the feeling or sense of having to 'intentionally' do it..

        what I would contribute for now - is that it might be at this time a bit more beneficial to get a more precise sense of where you want to direct your action and how you see your 'target picture' than it might be to 'technique it'..

        just a thought..

        and the underpinning is that what I think I know now - is that working towards 'clarity of technique' can sometimes conflict with 'clarity of purpose' ..

        if I haven't annoyed you enough yet - here's a story and the center I'm working from ..

        I spent a good part of last year mired in 'technique' and one of my golfing friends just put me into a mode of hitting specific shots, aligning, purpose and very specific bits of setup into them..

        make of that what you will - I've played golf a long time and have had campaigns both good and bad - potential that seemed like the sky was the proverbial limit..and the complete opposite..

        at the end of the season ..before the snow began to fall...

        I had probably one of my best range sessions in years..and the observation and input was ..'you're hitting substantially better shots, with better control and better distance, and we haven't really even touched your swing..'

        and that..

        was interesting information..

        and it has put me on a sort of winter quest to understand the 'whys' and 'hows'

        here's the point as to how it might apply to you..

        sometimes what looks like a problem with technique may instead be a problem with something else..

        they are 2 sides of the same coin..but fixing one side does not necessarily fix the other..

        and in fact, may actually create something else entirely..

        and now back to cycles of gravity and momentum..

        there may not be a 'perfect unicorn' that elevates you ..or at least until you know what 'picture' you're trying to put the unicorn into.

        and at the end of this little ramble..

        perhaps you already do..

        and these words may well be unneeded or perhaps even wasted..

        at least for you..

        but not necessarily for everyone..

        best of luck to you and all the other good people of the WIG forum for 2017

        cheers for now..

        k_f

        from the hidden Ravine below 13th at CN G&CC
        tu nunquam hic

        Secret Swing Tech c/o Pigaman @ Crackpot Labs

        wisdomingolf.com/index.php?option=com_ku...&id=47972&Itemid=225

        let energy instead of style define you.

        Proud Member 'Quote Yourself Club'

        Comment


        • Ken Robie
          Ken Robie commented
          Editing a comment
          Kid, I like your thought process there!!! I have been doing a lot of Joint mobilization work (soft tissue release) this winter and one of the biggest philosophy drivers with body pain and movement limitations is the phrase of "referred pain" I.e. as an example your knee pain does not originate in your knees but from farther up stream or down stream, (hips,ankles etc.) I think the biggest restriction to our understanding of "our" golf swing motion is we tend to focus on the "knee pain" if you will instead of what is causing that pain. So if you are having trouble with a particular WIG concept look up or down stream for your execution restriction. Tunnel vision is only good for trains most of the time! ;>)

        • Ling
          Ling commented
          Editing a comment
          Ken Robie, what kind of joint mobilization are you doing? I do some fascia stretching, sometimes rolling, but I'm interested in new techniques.

        • Ken Robie
          Ken Robie commented
          Editing a comment
          Ling I have been doing a lot of the stuff from "Smashwerx.com" Look up Smashwerx on youtube

      • #5
        This imho is the best video that Shawn has done which explains how you use G-forces and also how the transition is accomplished. For some reason I missed out on something vitally important he said which is " I pull the arms through with the squat of my lower body" .

        Listen and see 3:08 to 3:50 which I'm sure will help get your swing in groove.



        PS. Missed something else about using the leverage in the right leg to create some weightlessness in the pelvic area to enable an easier pressure shift/squat to the left leg. I seemed to have missed out on many of the important bits of this old video.
        Last edited by Schrodinger; 03-20-2017, 08:03 AM.

        Comment


        • #6
          Gravity dont work upwards lol. Must be the inertia plane stall you are talking about.

          Comment


          • Schrodinger
            Schrodinger commented
            Editing a comment
            You mean my word weightlessness is confusing? Probably best to use what Shawn said which was "float the weight back into the left side".

            What do you mean by 'inertia plane stall' ?

        • #7
          We can all agree that gravity doesnt work upwards so what im saying is that a backswing is powered. Some people are talking about it being powered with a swing and some are talking about placing into the top of the backswing.

          If you swing into the top of the backswing there is a moment when the force of your swing is concluded and there is an anticipation of the drop. This can be decribed as a stall as if a planes engine cuts out on a climb or as I think you have called it 'weightlessness'. I think we are talking about the same thing. Moment of inertia and then gravity drop.

          Comment


          • Schrodinger
            Schrodinger commented
            Editing a comment
            I think we are talking about different things although they might be linked together. Shawn mentions in his ski analogy that he has pushed up using his right quad which will make him 'float' (ie. he has less weight pressure the instant after he commences the pushing up) to make it easier to allow his pivot and squat into the left quad. Not sure about the 'stall' at the top of the backswing but I imagine it happens almost immediately after the squat has ended and the left quad starts pushing up (knee extension) . So maybe the timing of this movement is quite crucial from a sequence perspective, that the squat happens just before the top of the backswing is reached. That the 'inertial plane stall' and 'pushing up via the left quad' happens at the same time (ie. like the timing of pushing a kid on a swing). Still not 100% sure here about the sequence.
            Last edited by Schrodinger; 03-20-2017, 07:27 PM.

        • #8
          Hi Everyone,

          The video below should help everyone understand the True Top of the Backswing.

          Think Weight Shift, Cycle of Momentum and Center of Gravity. All of these concepts are related to how to get to the top of the backswing.

          It is the right/trail leg that is used in a feet apart swing to help maintain your center of gravity and get you out of the way during your backswing.

          It is the left/lead leg that the through swing revolves around. It also assists you in getting out of the way during your Through Swing and helps you assist momentum.



          Thanks,

          Gary
           

          Comment


          • Schrodinger
            Schrodinger commented
            Editing a comment
            Many thanks Gary - great video.

        • #9
          Just revisiting this thread. Was at the range today and was hitting some good shots, but all my contact was thin. Finally I realized that a lack of width was my problem. If you're not letting those arms swing to their maximum width where the club can pull on them, you're not going to have a consistent arc. You'll be guiding the club and thin shots is often the result.

          Let those arms swing out to their maximum width and then swing through with that maximum width and you'll see your contact improve dramatically.

          Comment

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