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  • Hip turn = more power?

    Greetings,

    I am crushing my irons, just crazy distances. But I have not had the same success implementing Shawn's teachings with the 3 wood and Driver. I am fit, flexible and can make a giant turn in balance on a practise swing, e.g. get my shoulders at least 110* with no discomfort. I am centred and not off-balance. I dont have any psychological/ego hangups with any of the clubs. I just cant make a full hip turn with the Driver or 3W when the ball is there for some reason. My knee goes toward the ball when my lead heel lifts.

    * Before anyone says "you're too ball-centric" - that's not the problem either. I am doing all the standards things SC suggests.

    Has anyone been able to overcome a similar problem?
    Last edited by Mick10; 4 weeks ago.

  • #2
    Hi Mick

    awesome to have you join in the conversations at the WIG forum -

    you present an interesting challenge - and frankly it's one that I've never really had - even when I had a much younger version of myself over the ball.

    what might help me (and others here) help sort a few things out and offer some suggestions is getting an idea of a few things:

    so in no particular order:

    1 what kind of ball flights are you seeing consistently with your irons (fade/draw)?

    2. what kind of results are you getting with your woods? Are you seeing similar ball flights but missing distance or are the shots very far (like your irons but off line ? If missing distance where do you think that you're striking the ball on the face of the club? If you're hitting it off line - are you hitting it flush?

    where I think I'm headed with this is that in my mind's eye is that the bottom or center of your swing with the longer clubs is likely too far forward - and you're probably working a bit too much turn relative to that.

    You likely already know this - but the key with the longer clubs is to make contact with the ball as the clubface on its way UP relative to the path/plane of the swing.

    the premise of all of this - is that the center or bottom of your swing arc remains more or less the same with your clubs .. but it moves out from you are (the clubs get longer) and the ball position will move a bit closer to your lead or target side ..

    your '110' would remain the same regardless and but your experience and optics of your anatomy would change as you become a bit more upright working with the longer clubs.

    so are you 'ball focused' ?

    I don't think so - but I think that you might be trying to replicate or duplicate elements/feels of your successful shorter club swings with your longer clubs and it's probably working you a little inside and stuck ..

    the key is probably in your posture ..

    hope there's an idea or two in there to help you make some forward progress..

    cheers for now

    k_f
    from the hidden Ravine below 13th at CN G&CC
    tu nunquam hic

    Secret Swing Tech c/o Pigaman @ Crackpot Labs

    wisdomingolf.com/index.php?option=com_ku...&id=47972&Itemid=225

    let energy instead of style define you.

    Proud Member 'Quote Yourself Club'

    Comment


    • #3
      also wanted to share a couple of videos that Shawn put together that remain particularly important in my understanding and explanation of how this works.



      the long form and multiple lengths explained here:



      cheers for now

      k_f
      from the hidden Ravine below 13th at CN G&CC
      tu nunquam hic

      Secret Swing Tech c/o Pigaman @ Crackpot Labs

      wisdomingolf.com/index.php?option=com_ku...&id=47972&Itemid=225

      let energy instead of style define you.

      Proud Member 'Quote Yourself Club'

      Comment


      • #4
        I was in a similar boat--the irons came around pretty quickly, but it took awhile for the driver. I finally figured out that I was doing all my drills with irons, usually middle irons and wedges. I changed up my practice time (at home and on the range) and started doing my main drills first with an iron and then with the driver. My "go to" drills are the feet together, one leg drill, walking/elephant walk drill, eyes closed drill, and perpetual motion drill. You might try doing the drills but emphasizing the driver.

        After a while emphasizing the driver, i changed it up and I now make sure to change clubs every rep when doing drills. If I'm doing 5 reps of the feet together drill, I will go 7 iron, driver, wedge, hybrid and 5 iron.

        Comment


        • #5
          Mick, here is something else for you to consider as you practice with the longer clubs, If you watch Shawn's to videos that Kid has linked up for you , notice the tempo and distance that the two different swing arcs take. For the shorter swing arc it is more upright , has a faster tempo , less tug against the rooted core of the body and has a much tighter radius for the club head to travel. The opposite is true of the longer woods. It takes a flatter , longer, slower tempo swing with a great deal more force pulling against the core of the body. For you to realize your full potential swing potential with the longer clubs will require a more deliberate use of the core to resist the pull of the longer clubs. You may think the lead knee going out is a result of the ball being there but it really is from you trying to get the club there in the same time frame and energy expended level as the shorter clubs. If you let the core feel the load of the clubs travel around your body you will become even more rooted and balanced to the pull of the club back and through. Place an object like a piece of cardboard or something that will let the club pass freely but give you feedback if your lead knee goes toward the ball instead of turning behind the ball. This will help with your low point staying behind the Teed up ball and provide a better launch angle and more time for the club to reach it's full extension release through the ball. Lots of rambling but pick through it and see if it helps you out.

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi guys,

            One of my all-time favorites of our Chairman's WIGisms ……

            "...let the CLUB swing YOU..."

            dude abides
            "OLD" Forum Participation

            Entry Date: 18-JAN-2011
            Posts: 1813
            Thank You: 1048

            "Be water, my friends"

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi WIG Friends..

              I'll stipulate that this bit is a tangent and speaks to a series of points in another thread. I'm fairly sure it was Schrodinger who was posting on a relationship between speed of hip turn on the LPGA tour and a sort of flattening or lack of actual speed transfer into the swing/clubhead.

              my speculation is that turn alone doesn't necessarily do it .. and that one of the options to get more clubhead speed is a use of the ground in the swing ..

              the WIG version of this is the 'kid on a swing' and pushing a bit up..

              this version is 'sheer force' and works a bit back..



              the premise being that if you have something pulling out (Centripetal) depending on how you are dropping the club (Shawn's core WIG swing being the Catapult or Trebuchet he is working down.. so kid on swing works UP)

              this swing working a bit more rotary or around.. has something working a bit back..

              my guess would be that the next big power source discovery in Women's Golf will be ground forces in some fashion..

              here's an example in the world of Lady's Long Drive.. the very impressive Lisa Longball..



              while it's 'all about the turn' .. look at her leg action through the ball..

              cheers for now

              k_f
              from the hidden Ravine below 13th at CN G&CC
              tu nunquam hic

              Secret Swing Tech c/o Pigaman @ Crackpot Labs

              wisdomingolf.com/index.php?option=com_ku...&id=47972&Itemid=225

              let energy instead of style define you.

              Proud Member 'Quote Yourself Club'

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi. Thanks for all the replies; I hit the "subscribe" button but didn't get any notifications. So apologies for not responding. Let me review the posts and then I'll reply to those asking for more info.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by kid_fullerene View Post
                  Hi Mick

                  awesome to have you join in the conversations at the WIG forum -

                  you present an interesting challenge - and frankly it's one that I've never really had - even when I had a much younger version of myself over the ball.

                  what might help me (and others here) help sort a few things out and offer some suggestions is getting an idea of a few things:

                  so in no particular order:

                  1 what kind of ball flights are you seeing consistently with your irons (fade/draw)?

                  2. what kind of results are you getting with your woods? Are you seeing similar ball flights but missing distance or are the shots very far (like your irons but off line ? If missing distance where do you think that you're striking the ball on the face of the club? If you're hitting it off line - are you hitting it flush?

                  where I think I'm headed with this is that in my mind's eye is that the bottom or center of your swing with the longer clubs is likely too far forward - and you're probably working a bit too much turn relative to that.

                  You likely already know this - but the key with the longer clubs is to make contact with the ball as the clubface on its way UP relative to the path/plane of the swing.

                  the premise of all of this - is that the center or bottom of your swing arc remains more or less the same with your clubs .. but it moves out from you are (the clubs get longer) and the ball position will move a bit closer to your lead or target side ..

                  your '110' would remain the same regardless and but your experience and optics of your anatomy would change as you become a bit more upright working with the longer clubs.

                  so are you 'ball focused' ?

                  I don't think so - but I think that you might be trying to replicate or duplicate elements/feels of your successful shorter club swings with your longer clubs and it's probably working you a little inside and stuck ..

                  the key is probably in your posture ..

                  hope there's an idea or two in there to help you make some forward progress..

                  cheers for now

                  k_f
                  thanks very much for the warm welcome. To answer your questions,

                  1. My natural shot shape is a draw, I can vary the height when I need to
                  2. I usually hit the 3wood great, very straight off the deck and about the same distance as my driver
                  3. yes i am usually pretty flush with the driver, but I do get the occasional heel shots. My driver is very forgiving on mishits though (Cobra LTD)
                  4. yeah I have tinkered with ball position to try to find the best position and tee height. Lately I have it off the lead heel and teed fairly high
                  5. in the past the launch monitors have shown I hit up too much, so I have tried less side tilt and a lower tee. I can easily add 7*. My dynamic loft with driver was 27 -29*!
                  6. posture; maybe. I video tape my swing to see where the obvious flaws are. I will say that the driver seems to make me work harder so there's something wrong there somewhere.

                  Thanks for your helpful points, I appreciate it


                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by alfriday View Post
                    I was in a similar boat--the irons came around pretty quickly, but it took awhile for the driver. I finally figured out that I was doing all my drills with irons, usually middle irons and wedges. I changed up my practice time (at home and on the range) and started doing my main drills first with an iron and then with the driver. My "go to" drills are the feet together, one leg drill, walking/elephant walk drill, eyes closed drill, and perpetual motion drill. You might try doing the drills but emphasizing the driver.

                    After a while emphasizing the driver, i changed it up and I now make sure to change clubs every rep when doing drills. If I'm doing 5 reps of the feet together drill, I will go 7 iron, driver, wedge, hybrid and 5 iron.
                    Many thanks. I will try that.

                    I will say that I have had some success recently by trying to copy what Shawn says. Literally. So I am saying "out of the way, out of the way"!. And it does work to get my hips turned better.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Ken Robie View Post
                      Mick, here is something else for you to consider as you practice with the longer clubs, If you watch Shawn's to videos that Kid has linked up for you , notice the tempo and distance that the two different swing arcs take. For the shorter swing arc it is more upright , has a faster tempo , less tug against the rooted core of the body and has a much tighter radius for the club head to travel. The opposite is true of the longer woods. It takes a flatter , longer, slower tempo swing with a great deal more force pulling against the core of the body. For you to realize your full potential swing potential with the longer clubs will require a more deliberate use of the core to resist the pull of the longer clubs. You may think the lead knee going out is a result of the ball being there but it really is from you trying to get the club there in the same time frame and energy expended level as the shorter clubs. If you let the core feel the load of the clubs travel around your body you will become even more rooted and balanced to the pull of the club back and through. Place an object like a piece of cardboard or something that will let the club pass freely but give you feedback if your lead knee goes toward the ball instead of turning behind the ball. This will help with your low point staying behind the Teed up ball and provide a better launch angle and more time for the club to reach it's full extension release through the ball. Lots of rambling but pick through it and see if it helps you out.
                      Thank you for your considered response. I will give this my attention

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by COSTA103 View Post
                        Hi guys,

                        One of my all-time favorites of our Chairman's WIGisms ……

                        "...let the CLUB swing YOU..."

                        dude abides
                        yes. I know Shawn repeats himself quite a bit because repetition = emphasis, especially for blockheads like me, lol. But its hard to get the feel of that in actual practise. I am struggling to feel the clubhead if my grip is tight enough the way he suggests

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          @kid: re Lisa Longball, yes I see what she is doing. I will say one of the flaws in my downswing has to do with a hip slide towards the target on the downswing. I dont have that with most of my irons which is probably why I hit them well. So I have to work on my feet together drill. Also I am not really able to "hurl the club" with a firm grip like Shawn shows (yet), so I am not consistently pushing up off the ground with my lead side through impact. Of course, ideally this all happens automatically if one does what Shawn suggests. Just not fully there yet. I look at Matt Blois' swing and think "how can he have such clubhead speed when it looks like he's barely swinging at it?" The "easy swing" with a driver is not second nature to me. But funny thing is - I dont try to swing easy with the irons, I swing purposely.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Went to the range today. Just tried to really relax the arms and focus on throwing to my targets. I must say that predicting the height of the shot helps too. I was able to get another 20 yards carry with the 3wood and driver, both still going about the same distance, so my 3wood is nearly maxed out probably. I think I am getting the feel of the "let the ACU fall with gravity". My effort level was probably half what it usually is. [and oh yeah, I also had my weight /foot pressure more evenly balanced at address].

                            BTW, in case this helps somebody; I made two swings with my 8 iron back to back. First one went about 150; second one went 190. The difference? Honestly the swings felt pretty much the same, but on the long one I just remembered to say to myself "out of the way". It helps me a lot to gather my swing and sure doesn't hurt the tempo. What a crazy game.
                            Last edited by Mick10; 2 weeks ago.

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