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  • Driver lag

    I can't seem to get the same feeling of lag for the driver and 3-wood off the tee as i do for my irons and hybrids. I have been watching Shawn's latest you tubes about dominant lead hand and lag, etc, and they are great of course. I am left hand dominant playing righty - my analogy/feel is a backhand / sling / whipping action of the ACU toward the target, and for the irons and hybrids it is working great. With the long clubs, i can't seem to get the same feel, its more of a right hand throw to the target, but results are not good at all. Very inconsistent drives, no distance, etc.
    Anyone else experience this? I assume i just need to practice more to get the feel correct. My game is really coming together, but off the tee is yeesh! It seems to be the last piece of the puzzle for me lol.

  • #2
    Hi AK

    key phrase ..'feeling of lag for driver vs. irons/hybrids'

    I would think that if you have that dialed in with shorter clubs and now you're working off a tee..

    it's probably more of a setup issue..

    best bet is to figure out where the actual bottom of your swing is with the longer clubs and then mark it.. then put your ball on a tee and make a note of where it is in relation to the low point of your swing..

    usually what happens is that people don't have enough arm extension at setup and/or turn their sternum notch to the ball on the tee..

    that will so often lead to open shoulders at setup and a downswing that would either be across the ball (hard pull) or if you can save it ..basically a weak cut..

    so if you can get a sense of where you're aligned..where the low point is in relation to the desired target line..and then remember you need to catch the teed ball on the upswing..and place and tee it accordingly ..and try that..

    then you might have a congruent feel that is worth practicing and dialing in.. sometimes what appears to be strictly a 'feel' issue is you losing a sense of where/how you're aligned into the 'target picture' ..

    again - if you have it with irons/hybrids...it's clear that it probably 'ain't your swing' ..the 3W and Driver are not radically longer ..they just sit in a different part of your swing arc and a little higher..

    test and measure ..get a sense of what's going on dynamically..

    and give it the time it needs rhythmically to complete the 'swing cycle' ..

    I think that might help you unlock a lot of this..

    hope it's of some help..

    cheers

    k_f
    from the hidden Ravine below 13th at CN G&CC
    tu nunquam hic

    Secret Swing Tech c/o Pigaman @ Crackpot Labs

    wisdomingolf.com/index.php?option=com_ku...&id=47972&Itemid=225

    let energy instead of style define you.

    Proud Member 'Quote Yourself Club'

    Comment


    • Ken Robie
      Ken Robie commented
      Editing a comment
      One thing that Shawn has mentioned in the past is take some swings from the slope of the tee box (up hill if you will) This will help you feel where the body's posture should be in order to use the full expansiveness of the longer clubs like the drive rand 3 wood. There is a video some where but I do not have a link at the moment.

    • akgolfnut
      akgolfnut commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks Kid, i definitely probably need to work on my set up with the longer clubs. For the driver, i follow Shawn's advice of not pointing the sternum notch at the ball, and i have the club head in the middle of my stance, in order to catch the ball on the upswing. I usually take 2 or 3 practice swings to see where the club is brushing the grass, then i bring my structure to the ball. But again, i can't capture that slinging, backhand, trebuchet feel that i get with the irons and hybrids. I was thinking of practicing the sword drill and the battering ram drill with the longer clubs, which i have not done. Like you say sometimes it just takes time and practice to discover things. Thanks.

  • #3
    One thing that Shawn has mentioned in the past is take some swings from the slope of the tee box (up hill if you will) This will help you feel where the body's posture should be in order to use the full expansiveness of the longer clubs like the driver and 3 wood. There is a video some where but I do not have a link at the moment.

    Starting at the 3:00 mark in this video . . .

    Comment


    • Cally
      Cally commented
      Editing a comment
      Sorry Ken, when you said 'slope of the tee box' this is the one I immediately thought of. Is the one you're thinking of on the Premium Channel perhaps? I'm drawing a blank right now . . . I guess I'll have to consult the indexed binder that 'Happyroman' left in the WIG video vault to see if I can find the one you're talking about.

    • Ken Robie
      Ken Robie commented
      Editing a comment
      Yeah I'm not sure. It could even be something from the uphill down hill series.

    • akgolfnut
      akgolfnut commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks guys i will check that video out!

  • #4
    Originally posted by akgolfnut View Post
    Thanks Kid, i definitely probably need to work on my set up with the longer clubs. For the driver, i follow Shawn's advice of not pointing the sternum notch at the ball, and i have the club head in the middle of my stance, in order to catch the ball on the upswing. I usually take 2 or 3 practice swings to see where the club is brushing the grass, then i bring my structure to the ball. But again, i can't capture that slinging, backhand, trebuchet feel that i get with the irons and hybrids. I was thinking of practicing the sword drill and the battering ram drill with the longer clubs, which i have not done. Like you say sometimes it just takes time and practice to discover things. Thanks.
    Hi AK

    sounds like you're way ahead of my initial 'take' on this ..which is not a surprise, given your substantial commitment to WIG ..

    definitely check the setup vs. your target line ..in that I remain convinced (for reasons I can't account for) that you're likely somehow working a bit inside your target line ..

    you also mention working on practicing techniques that involve sustaining heavy lag - which is good.

    another way to approach this might be to dig out Shawn's Rhythm series and re-engage your sense of the longer cycles of the swings on the longer clubs .. Sometimes the rhythm can help the desired physicality of the analogy or drill appear..

    whatever path you can identify to help you locate the sense of staying within the shot and having the swing 'appear' is valid -

    the other thought I have is maybe even try putting an intermediate target out past the ball in your driver setup to help you identify the target line into the picture ..

    it's a bit trickier with the longer clubs as they tend to be more whippy and they need a bit more time to accelerate, which makes the clubheads heavier and easier to identify....Irons are smaller and denser ..so the rhythm and weight is easier to pick out ..in short, they're heavier sooner ..

    hope this helps you take a few steps closer

    cheers

    k_f
    from the hidden Ravine below 13th at CN G&CC
    tu nunquam hic

    Secret Swing Tech c/o Pigaman @ Crackpot Labs

    wisdomingolf.com/index.php?option=com_ku...&id=47972&Itemid=225

    let energy instead of style define you.

    Proud Member 'Quote Yourself Club'

    Comment


    • Ken Robie
      Ken Robie commented
      Editing a comment
      Might try to get a hold of an Orange Whip or the Hitting Stick to get used to waiting for the longer shafts.

  • #5
    Hi guys,

    Just shooting in the dark....
    Something that I wrote years ago? (see attached)
    Sometimes it can be this simple....

    dude abides
    Attached Files
    "OLD" Forum Participation

    Entry Date: 18-JAN-2011
    Posts: 1813
    Thank You: 1048

    "Be water, my friends"

    Comment


    • kid_fullerene
      kid_fullerene commented
      Editing a comment
      Dude ..no attachment visible ..try and reattach or send me the file and I'll post in line for you..

      cheers

      k_f

    • Ken Robie
      Ken Robie commented
      Editing a comment
      Kid I got it to open through MS Word

    • Ken Robie
      Ken Robie commented
      Editing a comment
      As a piggy back to the Costa Dude's article, how many of us "regular" golfers even have a chance to find out how far we "carry" our drivers on a normal swing? I sure don't have a good place to do that at my course it is just a guess.

  • #6
    Hi guys,

    Profuse apologies for my antiquated technical skills?

    Here's the article:
    Enjoy


    “Manly Man” and Yardage Windows
    or
    Centrifugal Force; Not Brute Force


    Have you ever been “in the Zone”? Not necessarily in golf, but in any aspect of your life? Maybe you had a particularly good run of meetings at the office in which you were particularly persuasive and effective at getting the team to go along with your ideas. You were prepared and confident; and it showed. Work was fun. It was easy.

    Perhaps in your personal life? Every stranger with whom you struck up a conversation found you engaging and witty; fun to be around. You were having unusual success with the ladies? Welcome to the “Zone”.

    It happens in athletics too. You drain three-pointer after three-pointer; almost effortlessly. You’re making every correct pass without thinking about it. Your teammates can sense that if they get open you will find a way to get them the ball. Every pool shot goes in; even the tricky combinations and bank shots. You’re focused and nothing seems to distract you.

    In golf? Every tee shot splits the middle of the fairway. You KNOW that your approach will find the green. Every putt seems to go in. You feel a sense of calm confidence that you have “It” today. Have you ever been there? I would say that you were feeling pretty good about yourself, but you weren’t thinking about that until after that visit to “the Zone” had passed. While you were in it, your Ego was on some sort of auto-pilot.

    Do you have trouble with the Driver? Do you find that your level of efficiency and consistency with your other clubs is greater than it is with your Driver? I did too, once, until I learned about the influence your Ego can have on your golf game. Ego in golf can be a good thing and a bad thing; depending upon how you let it affect you.

    The good thing is when you think in terms like “confidence” or “success”. The bad thing is when you become concerned with your self-esteem or your self-image. We all go through phases where we equate how HARD and how FAR we hit the driver with our self-image; our EGO. I call it the “Manly Man Complex”. It’s a disease. The harder and farther you hit the ball, the more “manly” you are. Rubbish.

    Let me ask you a question. Picture yourself in the bar after your round. You’re having a drink with your buddies and you get to “brag” about some aspect of your game today. Would you rather brag about the LONG DRIVE(S) you hit or the LOW SCORE you shot? To a man, everyone to whom I’ve posed this question over the years has answered “the low score”. To which I’ve responded: “Rubbish…then PLAY that way?”

    What club do you hit from 150 yards? Ask any reasonably experienced golfer and he/she can recite that number precisely. For purposes of this discussion we’ll presume 7-iron. So when you’re out on the course and faced with a 150 yard shot, you confidently pull your 7-iron, right? Well what if you were looking at a shot of one hundred and EIGHTY yards? Easy; you’d swing really HARD with your seven-iron, right? Duh, NOT RIGHT!
    You’d “club up” a bit; perhaps 5-iron.

    That’s because you have long ago decided that each of your clubs has a “distance window”, beyond which it is foolishness to attempt to hit it. Well, here’s the deal. Your DRIVER has a DISTANCE WINDOW just like the rest of your clubs. Trying to hit the ball BEYOND that window is just as foolish as trying to hit your wedge 200 yards. But, with the Driver we do it all the time, don’t we?

    Notice at this point that I didn’t ask you how far you hit the driver? That’s because most of us don’t know, and if we DO know, we’ll exaggerate. No, let’s call it like it is: we’ll LIE! That’s our EGO taking over. We watch the guys on TV blast it over 300 yards and we have fooled ourselves into thinking that 300 is normal. HELLO?!?! We can’t hit it as far as those guys do and the quicker we get back to reality, the better.

    Remember distance comes from speed, and trying to hit the ball HARDER will invariably SLOW your swing down; not speed it up.

    While we’re talking about your Driver, take a look at the face loft and shaft flex of the one in your bag. Most commonly, especially amongst players who profess to have difficulty with the driver, they are playing a stick with too stiff a shaft and not enough loft on the face. Somehow, we’ve come to equate stiff shaft and low face loft with Manly Man. “…I swing really hard so I need an extra stiff shaft…”?!?! I hear it all the time. That’s your Ego talking again; not reality. In most cases, a “softer” shaft (closer to “Regular”) and more loft on the face will do way more to help maximize distance for the majority of players.

    Now this discussion is a generalization and not intended to be a substitute for professional club fitting; only to point out that letting your ego get in the way of your Driver specs and swing is robbing you of the very thing that you are attempting to attain. Remember, distance results from speed, and speed results from Centrifugal Force; not BRUTE force.





    "OLD" Forum Participation

    Entry Date: 18-JAN-2011
    Posts: 1813
    Thank You: 1048

    "Be water, my friends"

    Comment


    • #7
      Originally posted by COSTA103 View Post
      Your DRIVER has a DISTANCE WINDOW just like the rest of your clubs. Trying to hit the ball BEYOND that window is just as foolish as trying to hit your wedge 200 yards. But, with the Driver we do it all the time, don’t we?
      Hi Dude,

      Excellent article Dude! This is worthy of publication!

      Talking about trying to hit your wedge 200 yards, I once hit my 9 iron 180 yards . . . no wait a minute, never mind . . . I was looking at the sole of my club the wrong way, that was my 6 iron!

      But seriously, the Driver having a DISTANCE WINDOW just like the rest of our clubs is very true. Shawn says that our Driver should go about 20 yards farther than a 3 wood (not infinitely farther). And while I don't carry a 3 wood, I've found for me that my typical Driver goes about 30 to 35 yards farther than my typical 4 wood. So I think I'm just about within those same DISTANCE WINDOW parameters.

      That said, I have to admit that I sometimes let the Ego factor get the best of me during range practice with the Driver . . . just seeing if I can get it out there a little farther than normal.

      Comment

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