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  • What's your focus?

    Please comment below if you'd like to see another choice appears in the poll. I'll edit the list of available choices.
    9
    Dandelion stem
    0%
    0
    Intermediate point
    11.11%
    1
    Target
    33.33%
    3
    Low point of the divot
    22.22%
    2
    Other (please specify)
    11.11%
    1
    Elephant swing / walk
    0%
    0
    Target picture (target, trajectory, landing area, etc.) and matching shot
    22.22%
    2
    Last edited by Ferko; 1 week ago.

  • #2
    My focus is to feel like I am walking (elephant swing).

    Comment


    • Ferko
      Ferko commented
      Editing a comment
      Added the choice.

  • #3
    Would like see a picture that includes my target, my shot and it's trajectory landing at my target. After the shot I ask myself did I stay with the picture?

    Comment


    • Ferko
      Ferko commented
      Editing a comment
      Added "Target picture (target, trajectory, landing area, etc.) and matching shot". Can change it if needed.

    • Cally
      Cally commented
      Editing a comment
      Just voted. I like this choice too of Target Picture as it's more specific than just Target. As part of this Target Picture I like to think of where I want to start the ball and where the ball will end. So in essence it's really two targets i.e., start target and end target.

  • #4
    Hi guys,

    I voted for “low point of the arc”….

    It can be either FORWARD of the ball (for shots hit off the ground, for which I want a “descending” contact) or to the REAR of the ball (for shots from a peg, for which I want an “ascending” contact)…
    I thought of it because that’s where my VISION is “focused”…

    That point serves me as the “intermediate point”.

    I’m sure most, if not all of us consider the “intermediate point” to be always FORWARD of the ball? In so doing, we imagine a “line” from the center of the ball to/over that point?

    We imagine our motion-energy to travel between the ball and that point.
    Or, in my case, sometimes between that point and the ball.

    Any planned curvature of the ball-flight is established in the manner in which I place my hands on the handle, referenced to the closed-face. (Thank you again, Marcus?). I do maintain an overall image of what I plan the shot to look like, but I cannot say that it is my FOCUS?

    What I struggle with is HOW to AIM the STATIC face of the club (at address) so that it will arrive at the ball in the DYNAMIC fashion (at delivery) such that the ball launches in the direction I desire?

    THAT, to me, is the work-in-progress…

    Interesting topic, Ferko? Well done.

    dude abides
    "OLD" Forum Participation

    Entry Date: 18-JAN-2011
    Posts: 1813
    Thank You: 1048

    "Be water, my friends"

    Comment


  • #5
    Originally posted by COSTA103 View Post
    What I struggle with is HOW to AIM the STATIC face of the club (at address) so that it will arrive at the ball in the DYNAMIC fashion (at delivery) such that the ball launches in the direction I desire?
    Hi Dude,

    On this particular point, I find it to be more of a challenge when I attempt a FADE. My tendency has been to not have the clubface closed enough at STATIC address for the desired shot.

    Comment


    • #6
      Hi Cally,

      My best to Ciro if you stumble across him?
      Cira sends her best as well....

      If you subscribe, as I do, to Marcus' (alpineberlinette) theory....

      It comes down to what is the DIFFERENCE (in club-face-rotation) between our STATIC address and our DYNAMIC delivery?
      I'm sure that every human is different?

      We address the ball with a "closed" face because at IMPACT, that same club-face will be DYNAMICALLY open?

      But........how much?

      Trial and error....
      Access to a good launch-monitor can provide some excellent references....

      The key is..... IF, at address, I point the club-face here.....WHERE will the same club-face be pointing in DYNAMIC motion?
      I'm sure that it is different with EACH of us?

      Our Chairman typically states ".....close the club-face a little less.....
      How much is a "little"?
      From where is that "little" measured?

      I struggle. I'm sure others do too.

      Hope, someday, to discover the solution?

      dude abides
      "OLD" Forum Participation

      Entry Date: 18-JAN-2011
      Posts: 1813
      Thank You: 1048

      "Be water, my friends"

      Comment


      • #7
        Originally posted by COSTA103 View Post
        Our Chairman typically states ".....close the club-face a little less.....
        How much is a "little"?
        From where is that "little" measured?

        I struggle. I'm sure others do too.

        Hope, someday, to discover the solution?

        dude abides
        Dude,

        Say hello to Cira for me! I hope she is staying somewhere warm in this Arctic type weather!

        Just curious, when you "measure" do you go completely by how the clubface looks to you or do you also perhaps, when you grip the club, go by how your hands align with the manufacture markings/logo on the grip?

        Comment


        • #8
          Hi Cally,
          I would have to say that I "....go completely by how the clubface looks to you....."

          I once had a technician who was installing grips for me and he asked WHERE I would like the markings oriented?

          I told him that it did not matter, because I do not LOOK at the handle when I'm placing my hands...

          I look at the club-FACE.

          If it is "square", when I place the club out in front of me and I "bounce" it up and down (wrists), then the leading edge of the club-face will NOT WAVER from its VERTICAL position....

          CLOSED is somewhat LEFT of that..... OPEN is somewhat RIGHT of that....

          But all that does is affect the degree of curvature that the ball will experience?

          We all talk about AIMING the "motion-to-target"....

          But, the alignment of the club-face (at impact) has a DIRECT correlation to the DIRECTION upon which the ball will LAUNCH?

          How much "open" is the correct amount of "open"?
          How much "closed" is the correct amount of "closed"?

          Call me crazy, but IF our Chairman has addressed this point, I have MISSED it?

          How much is much?
          From where is the "much" measured?

          I'll keep searching....

          dude abides
          "OLD" Forum Participation

          Entry Date: 18-JAN-2011
          Posts: 1813
          Thank You: 1048

          "Be water, my friends"

          Comment


          • Ken Robie
            Ken Robie commented
            Editing a comment
            Dude, coming from my analytical side of golf, "when you're in your "work shop" do you have a visual overhead representation in your mind of the club shaft / face orientation in your "pre-go" address position? I.e. would a shadow cast from a position perpendicular to your shoulder tilt always match?

          • COSTA103
            COSTA103 commented
            Editing a comment
            Hi Ken,
            If I understand your question.....I do not think so?

            If I'm planning a Draw, my shoulder tilt would appear (from above) to be a bit RIGHT of target....
            If I'm planning a Fade, my shoulder tilt would appear (from above) to be a bit LEFT of target....

            But perhaps that is begging the question a bit....

            MY question is NOT where my SHOULDERS should be aiming...
            It is more where my club-FACE should be aiming....

            dude abides

          • Ken Robie
            Ken Robie commented
            Editing a comment
            Dude, Yeah I was probably as clear as mud there. ;>) No it was definitely related to the face and shaft relationship (more open, more closed). I.e. what does a 5 yard draw and fade look like at set up kind of idea. Sorry. ;>)

        • #9
          Yes, I also have this problem about static clubface address vs judgement of where it will be pointing dynamically when I swing to target. Imho, this can only be judged approximately doing the PMD and Goldilocks (while still swinging to a target) , seeing the blur of the clubhead and its path , then just making a judgement of where the ball needs to be to fit your intent (fade, draw, high, low) when you 'move the machine'. We are all going to have differences in our grip, posture, stance, weight pressures, swing paths/planes, wrist hinge , differing combinations of muscles being engaged and contracted differently (isotonic, isometric, even isokinetic) at different times to suit our intent (our CNS knowing what's safe for us 'IF WE LET IT'). I suppose the only way we can help our CNS make the correct safe decision on how our body moves ( to serve our intent) is to setup in such a way that it makes your decided 'PMD/Goldilocks' swing effortless without any strain. That seems strange because you would have thought set-up determines the motion but maybe its the other way around

          Comment


          • #10
            Hi guys,
            Hey, Schrodinger....

            With all due respect....

            IMHO, "Goldilocks" and PMD will ONLY give you information about the DIRECTION in which the CLUB-HEAD is TRAVELLING (swinging)?
            NOT in what direction the FACE is pointing at that moment of IMPACT?

            The direction that the FACE is pointing goes a long way in determining in what DIRECTION the ball LAUNCHES off the face?

            Therein lies MY question?

            Love this place and you guys

            dude abides

            "OLD" Forum Participation

            Entry Date: 18-JAN-2011
            Posts: 1813
            Thank You: 1048

            "Be water, my friends"

            Comment


            • Schrodinger
              Schrodinger commented
              Editing a comment
              Hi Costa - yes , I agree with you and I suspect that's where Shawns dandelion concept could be useful. Maybe the intent on cutting the dandelion stem with the bottom edge of the clubface assists in the direction aspect. Problem is can we focus on 2 things at once (ie. swinging to a target and cutting the dandelion)?
              Last edited by Schrodinger; 1 week ago.

          • #11
            Originally posted by COSTA103 View Post
            Hi Cally,
            I would have to say that I "....go completely by how the clubface looks to you....."

            I once had a technician who was installing grips for me and he asked WHERE I would like the markings oriented?

            I told him that it did not matter, because I do not LOOK at the handle when I'm placing my hands...

            I look at the club-FACE.

            If it is "square", when I place the club out in front of me and I "bounce" it up and down (wrists), then the leading edge of the club-face will NOT WAVER from its VERTICAL position....

            CLOSED is somewhat LEFT of that..... OPEN is somewhat RIGHT of that....

            But all that does is affect the degree of curvature that the ball will experience?

            We all talk about AIMING the "motion-to-target"....

            But, the alignment of the club-face (at impact) has a DIRECT correlation to the DIRECTION upon which the ball will LAUNCH?

            How much "open" is the correct amount of "open"?
            How much "closed" is the correct amount of "closed"?

            Call me crazy, but IF our Chairman has addressed this point, I have MISSED it?

            How much is much?
            From where is the "much" measured?

            I'll keep searching....

            dude abides
            Thanks Dude!

            I confess that I go by both, but I've wondered if I was sort of cheating by checking the markings/logo of the grip in relation to my hand placement. I think the better and more experienced you are at this the more you can go just by how the clubface looks to you.

            As far as the Chairman, I know he's mentioned that how "closed" or how "less closed" the clubface is differs for him with his right handed swing verses his left handed swing because with his right handed swing his release is a little more emphatic.

            So like you said, this is all a little different for each of us!

            Comment


            • Ken Robie
              Ken Robie commented
              Editing a comment
              Cally, one of the things I think I struggle with consistency wise is grip pre-load during my set up, both in the hands and arms s well as the shoulders. I have to work on allowing that pre-load to be released from the body before the swing begins other wise the ball flight will tend to be in that direction. Might just be my issue who knows??? ;>)

          • #12
            Apologies to Ferko...

            We ( I ) may have inadvertently mis-directed you original-thread intent.....

            Sorry....

            dude abides
            "OLD" Forum Participation

            Entry Date: 18-JAN-2011
            Posts: 1813
            Thank You: 1048

            "Be water, my friends"

            Comment


            • Ferko
              Ferko commented
              Editing a comment
              These things have a life of their own. Fascinating discussion actually.

          • #13
            Hi WIG Friends..

            glad that this conversation is at least being had - and courtesy expressed about the inadvertent 'threadjacking' - we can always get it moved ..and reconstituted away from the original poll and its original concept..

            I guess my takeaway was that there are multiple ways to potentially go at this and get some kind of successful and workable resulting swing action.

            I also go into this bit knowing that this is also likely to be a tangent .. but let's hope that it has some kind of utility or allows the established ideas to be seen in a different way.

            what struck me with the varying 'how do you see' concepts polled is that they might not only relate to one swing type.

            but as form follows function and HOW the eye (both inner and outer) actually sees ..

            that's to say that your setup is at some level going to be in harmony with what you know you can reliably do

            and it's hopefully something that allows you a visual in some fashion of how you intend your swing to work..

            I literally think the visualization and its related cues reflects how you have perceived the target, the action to it..and the line you intend to stand to and send the action along.

            from there.. as you stand to it..that will give you a fairly specific visual perspective ..where your eyes are delimit what you can work with optically and visualize.

            I meander ..and suspect that I've already lost what little of the point I could make..

            I'll ponder it a bit more and perhaps circle back around on this..

            cheers

            k_f
            from the hidden Ravine below 13th at CN G&CC
            tu nunquam hic

            Secret Swing Tech c/o Pigaman @ Crackpot Labs

            wisdomingolf.com/index.php?option=com_ku...&id=47972&Itemid=225

            let energy instead of style define you.

            Proud Member 'Quote Yourself Club'

            Comment


            • #14
              Concerning focus....
              I am a sooo strong ball focus guy, that a strong overwriting external focus is mandatory.
              For some time throwing the club to something ‘out there’ was very helpful. There was a target, and also a task, which generates a golf appropriate body action.
              Only problem with that concept is the precision quality.
              My latest approach is in use for about 30 18 holes round or so.
              1. Intermediate target 1 foot in front of the ball.
              2. Slash left handed only (lag, lag, lag), eliminates my very strong ‘forehand’. For me better than the very good club throwing.
              3. Late action. I am pretty sure, 95% have mainly focus on the things BEFORE hitting the ball. My goal is to do nothing before coming close to the ball, but a lot over and through the intermediate target. At the beginning it always felt, I am too late, but astonishingly I destroyed the ball....effortlessly.

              As longer it goes now, that intermediate target few inches away from the ball is more and more the solution. Firstly for the set up and finally for the action.
              Today I had quite a lot poor moves, but all of them were good misses, not too far from the ideal landing zone.

              Comment


              • #15
                Just been watching this video below with Sasho McKenzie (one the most foremost voices in the science of golf and its biomechanics). Hear what is said from 10:00 to 16:00 . Amazing how instructional golf is starting to move into the external focus area to address errant strikes rather than just mechanical fixes.



                Just thought it was a good video to post because it shows a convergence between the scientists and WIG philosophy.







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