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Throwing Club vs Ben Hogan Basketball - To a target

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  • Throwing Club vs Ben Hogan Basketball - To a target

    I must admit this is something I've never really thought about as I've always tried focusing the throw of my 'arm/club unit' to the target (ie. meaning a distal point close to the flag). But obviously that might be wrong and I should consider throwing my 'arm/club unit' (as if it was a heavy bag of cement ) to an actual achievable target . Unsure how my brain reacts when I attempt to do something that is impossible for me to physically do .

    The reason I thought about the above is the picture I saw of Ben Hogan throwing a basketball to a target (ie. see below). He was throwing the basketball using a 2 handed pass to a target that was close enough for him to reach not to some distant impossible point in the distance.

    Click image for larger version

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  • #2
    Hi S - Aloha WIG Friends All..

    not sure if this will usefully illustrate the basketball throw concept opened in this thread..

    Billy of 'Ben Hogan Letter Lessons' Fame - who has helped translate and write concepts of Mr. Hogan with other Hogan Disciples .. has his own VLOG .. and puts into a sort of narrative of how he believes these concepts were put into practice and action ..

    at about 4:00 in this video - Billy walks through how the ball was to be thrown and in what alignment ..



    again - with Hogan material, there any number of ways to look at this stuff and it's very interdependent and setup is paramount .. also Mr. Hogan's swing works around a lower point in the spine than what a WIG swing does .. and his hands sync to his body which then rotates ..

    in short, Shawn's swing, teaching & concepts vary greatly from this ..

    so while it's all golf .. and it's a golf swing - and it may well work for you - be cautious when trying to combine with your WIG swing instruction journey .. in particular the concept of laying the club down or off vs. how Shawn has you 'let it fall' and 'cut grass' ..

    there's only so much room in the 'swing bottle' ..

    I'm a huge fan of Mr. Hogan and Billy continues to do very real and quality work understanding and explaining his swing - and this 'heavy ball to target concept' is very powerful ..

    one of Shawn's videos explaining the throwing concepts in the WIG framework that is very complete and a good walk through/workshop is this one



    the 'ball in a sling in a circle' is at about 6:00 ..

    I'm trying to find some 'move heavy weight stuff' - that also might work - maybe the kettle bell or medicine ball stuff if it's still around that are closer to the 'Hogan Basketball/Heavy Ball' ideas shown earlier..

    hope this is of some help -

    cheers

    k_f

    Here's at least one of the 'medicine ball type videos' that Shawn did.. he illustrates a 'toss' concept and arm extension in both directions... notice there isn't a hand rotation or 'laying off' in this illustration .. Shawn has this work as a sort of 'plant fall' ..


    for what it's worth - my speculation is that Shawn swings a bit higher in his spine, probably around his diaphragm vs. Mr. Hogan ..who was working a bit lower ..which might account for these differences in expression of action..

    arms have to sync to body.. it's a matter of how .. and where . that can make a big difference ..

    k_f
    Last edited by kid_fullerene; 07-08-2018, 08:41 AM.
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    • #3
      The only real way and 'acid test' is to actually throw the club. If you dont have lovely long rough to do it in then buy a very cheap second hand club from the discount bucket.

      I dont think of throwing the ACU. I think of how my ACU will throw the club.

      90% chance of the club flying left. Then you have two choices. Throw right and end up straight or think about where the club should be released and the weight of the club needed to head down the line. Choice two will have you letting the club go much earlier in the second pendulum and with a lower flight.

      Make sure you understand that your hands are not trying to return to set up. Hands impact is further towards target than set up. The amount of people who I see that hands return to set up at impact is staggering. Its an epidemic.

      Understanding the release once achieved is the key because without that you will go right back to the old swing intent.
      Last edited by Gmonkey; 07-09-2018, 07:39 AM.

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      • Schrodinger
        Schrodinger commented
        Editing a comment
        Must admit that even though I might try to throw the ACU , I do end up feeling that I'm just throwing the club. I think its because I end up using the arms more because I'm too inflexible to generate enough momentum with my pivot.

    • #4
      I think this was an attempt by Hogan to conceptualize the kinetic chain and target focus. I agree that throwing the basketball is distinctly different in feel than throwing the club. You have to keep in mind that Hogan was doing his best to communicate the concepts at hand but was limited to the media of print. But, just as Shawn does, he is using throwing the basketball like skipping the stone or throwing horseshoes to familiarize students with the idea of the kinetic chain and focus on task.

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      • #5

        What is your myth?

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