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  • #31
    Originally posted by Gmonkey View Post

    My latest thoughts involve a profound change. I hope Gary or Costa can post a related Shawn video to what im about to say.

    So you guys will be please to hear that it is an intent change of thought not a positional alteration.

    It could be a game changer but I been here many times before. Ill need to take this onto the range and if it works ill make a video.

    Has Shawn got a spine angle video. Id very much like to hear what he says about this.
    Hi guys,
    Sorry, GM.... but I am not particularly adept at chronicling our Chairman's videos by subject matter?
    However, I've dusted off one of my classic vintage concepts (it was in the back of my barn under an old, dusty green-Army tarp....musical quiz? bonus points if you can pinpoint the song??)
    You waltzed right up to the answer, but decided not to dance?
    Rather you launched right into more POSITIONAL ALTERATION discussion?

    Do yourself (and those of us who are following along) a favor when you video?
    Do a video of your genuine PRACTICE SWING and COMPARE it to your ACTUAL (with a ball) swing and see if you notice a difference in your EE?

    I maintain that you were right on the money in your (red-highlighted) observation above.
    But I"d be willing to wager that you'll find that you have NOT IMPLEMENTED that wonderful, purposeful observation?
    See if the video bears me out.

    I've said this before on this Forum and I'll say it again here...

    It is not clear to me why we insist on trying to address a "NON-mechanical" problem with a "MECHANICAL" solution.

    The same way that you suggest your INTENT is "different" when you throw the ball, I think you'll find that your INTENT is "different" when you make your "rehearsal swing".

    Love this place and you guys

    dude abides

    Last edited by COSTA103; 03-03-2019, 10:24 AM.
    "OLD" Forum Participation

    Entry Date: 18-JAN-2011
    Posts: 1813
    Thank You: 1048

    "Be water, my friends"


    • kid_fullerene
      kid_fullerene commented
      Editing a comment

      I am always in awe of your mysterious ways.. and right now am still baffled trying to figure out the song.. thanks for all you do .. and glad you continue to 'abide' here

  • #32
    This the spine angle video I think of by Shawn


    • #33
      Costa I will do what you have suggested. Practise swing and normal swing video. See what happens.

      I dont fully understand why you think I have gone the positional route? I just made an observation in an action and applied it to golf. Out of desperation more than anything hhahaha. The EE is doing my head in (to use an English phrase that means incredibly frustratiing.

      Gary thanks for the video. This video is more about what to do. I was talking about the possible false intent that prevents me from doing this right.

      Im a big believer in false intent. I dont believe that I can set up to a golf shot with zero consciousness. My CNS is not passive. It is reacting to a task that I am setting. The problem is that I am giving it the incorrect task. I call that false intent. I believe that there are many false intents that make the correct technique impossible.

      However I am willing to try anything. But asking me to play golf in some sort of unconscious state aint ever gonna happen. I dont play golf in my sleep.

      I will report back and really appreaciate feedback guys. Cheers Costa, Shrode, Gary, Kid etc.....

      Post soon as i can video.


      • #34
        Hi guys,

        Let me tell you a story that I share with many of my clients...

        Task Assignment: Palm of right-hand to Cheek of face (of another person)…

        Option 1: Imagine a three-year-old child that has just done the most amazingly cutest thing you've ever witnessed? You pat him/her on the cheek....

        Option 2: Now imagine a caress of a "significant other".... Totally different message being sent?

        Option 3: Slap across the face of a hysterical person...

        Option 4: Slap across the face of a "woman-scorned"???? Yikes! and finally.....

        Option 5: "intent to Injure"...

        I maintain if your "intent" was Option 5, you would NOT come at me with an "open palm"? You'd form a FIST! (sub-consciously, driven by your INTENTION)

        Task is the same.....Intent is variable.....ACTION is dramatically DIFFERENT???

        The point of differentiation between "rehearsal" swing and "actual" (with ball present) swing is that often-times the INTENT is DIFFERENT?


        If we're NOT going to USE the rehearsal-swing, WHY are we PRACTICING it???

        Mr. Nicklaus once said many years ago that the secret to good golf was to swing your Driver the SAME as your Wedge?
        In other words, the SWING is the SAME with every club in the bag...

        My position is that it often comes down to "ego"... (most will deny that?? )
        With the longer clubs, we want to hit the ball harder?
        That's not the same "intent" as our rehearsal-swing, is it?

        A recent conversation with a distinguished member of Crackpot National sprouted a vision which I believe has Merit...

        "EGO-less" swing (as differentiated from our Chairman's "EFFORT-less" swing....

        Hopefully more on that to follow...

        Love this place and you guys

        dude abides
        Last edited by COSTA103; 03-06-2019, 09:00 AM.
        "OLD" Forum Participation

        Entry Date: 18-JAN-2011
        Posts: 1813
        Thank You: 1048

        "Be water, my friends"


        • Shawn Clement
          Shawn Clement commented
          Editing a comment
          Interesting post Costa! In premium right now, we are dealing with “goldie locks” and the pre-motor cortex; it really complements what you are talkin about here and takes it to the next level!

        • COSTA103
          COSTA103 commented
          Editing a comment
          Nice of you to chime in, Mr. Chairman...
          It has been a while since I've noticed you on this board?
          I think that YOU (as an obviously uber-accomplished player, have long since accepted the notion of INTENTION as a driving force in our attempts...
          Someone like ME, (as a less-obviously LESS-accomplished player) struggle to keep in mind on a daily basis.

          You ARE what you THINK.
          Positive thoughts result in Positive actions;
          Negative thoughts result in Negative actions.

          Many of us are unable to differentiate the two...

          Love this place and you guys

          dude abides

      • #35
        I can relate to a lot of that Costa. Ok will report back.


        • #36
          Update. After all these years. I am finally swinging on the correct axis. It is a profound change to what I had been doing.

          I always suspected that I had a lateral fault in my movement but I had no idea how much.

          Its a massive breakthrough. Full on rotary feel as the drive force and the initial fall in the swing very much more pronounced.

          I'll post some vids soon.

          Im going to go back to a few of Shawns old classics to review the swing path.

          Im convinced I have the pivot right and that is the swing engine. The rest should fall into place now with trial and error.

          The divots I was taking on short irons are like NOTHING I have done before. Nice long stripes after the ball. An the ball is being taken clean so in this soft ground im 100% its ball first.

          Im feeling close now. Not had an AHA moment like this for a long time.

          Videos when wind dies down. Constant storms at the moment for me.


          • #37
            Right on G Monkey! I am working with a few students right now on that!


            • #38
              Thanks Shawn. Delighted to have your input !!!!!!

              I think I may have found another profound misinterpretation of intent of mine.

              Its about my thoughts with relation to release of lag.

              Now I have worked on my rotation and hip action Im finding that it is much more intuitive to release ealier in the swing. Gradual release through the swing just as Gary told me a while back.

              What I was doing was hinging early with the wrists and then firing them late with the swing. I actually noticed this because of fishing cast.

              I realised I was also doing this in a baseball swing. The same mistake. Cocking early and then swinging the bat (club) way too late and with a cramped feeling release way too late.

              So im now feeling like after the drop (falling down the plane) both my arms and wrists are being released and not just my arms and then wrists. This does not produce a casting action because now my rotation is better. In a latteral move this sure would give me a cast because the inertia point of the swing is different for those that need to stand up during the shot because of lack rotation.

              I think I might finally understand the take away wrecking ball analogy. It really does not work if you (like me) got the pivot intent wrong. All it did for me was relocate my sturnum and head but now my hips are working the WRECKING BALL take away finally works.

              For other people if a Shawn analogy doesnt work for you then make sure its not something you are doing that prevents it from working. Odds on thats the issue.

              Videos soon chaps.


              • #39
                I went to the course last night with the hip action sorted out. I did still EE but not nearly as much.

                The hip action change has given me a few options that were not available to me with the more linnear movement.

                Im still getting the arms and hands and club extending due to the inertia of the swing force. You guys have found a way to avoid that and I have a few options.

                Do you guys feel like you swing the club with your core??? This does take the feel that you are not swinging the arms as much or certainly that the extention point is past the ball. In fact I do feel like its more a swing of the arm-club-unit rather than swinging the arms and letting the wrists activate.

                I must state that I have tried what I would call a core driven swing before with bad results but I have never tried it with the hip action corrected. This may work with a much more rotary core action. If you try this with the lateral hip feeling you just push shot.

                So thats next up for me. A core driven swing of the arm club unit in combination with the new hip- spine feeling.

                So I failed last night and will upload now. You can see its still EE.

                Sometimes failing is good as long as you know why you failed.


                • #40
                  For me it's more a feeling of the core strength allowing the body to maintain posture against the increasing pull of the ACU. Hence preventing (EE) from taking over. Think of it as resisting the ball and string from extending your arm as the ball is made to go faster.


                  • #41
                    For me it’s more like turning to the right and then lifting the arms. Two actions, one after the other. If I manage to have the elbows close together, then I had a full turn and both arms can do their anatomicaly correct move (up).
                    It‘s like the typical Volleyball move, if you receive the ball with both underarms.
                    If I have issues (typically too much too the inside) I ask myself, are the arms moving up IN FRONT OF THE BODY? That helps most times to do it better the next swing.


                    • #42

                      Ok here it is. Im still swinging the hands on this video but I have the new hip action in place.

                      Im going to try swinging the club arm unit with the core next time. The new rotary hip intent will allow this. I have swung the club like that before but it didnt work with the old hip intent.

                      Im hopeful. Im also gonna simplify my hands on takeaway. There looks to be early rotation error .

                      Cost I did the practice swing for you. They look pretty much the same. Its not like they look too much different to be honest. Both hands and EE.

                      Anyway Ive detailed the next changes so ill report.


                      • #43
                        IMHO you have no width in your back swing , which is forcing you into a lot of hand action to save your EE issues.


                        • #44
                          A good observation but is width a result or action? If I simply decided to get wider then Id probably cast the club.

                          I will look at what lets me get wider in the swing. Unless you can tell me?



                          • #45
                            If you read my recent post carefully, you saw the remark about the ellbows close.
                            Make a test. Stand straight and rise both arms parallel to the ground, shoulder high. Both arms are same length (of course) and you have no issues to bring both palms together, while there is no break in one or both elbows. That is the maximum width you can achieve with the arms.
                            Remember my comment of the arms in front of the body?
                            Do the same test and don‘t have the touching hands in front of the sternum, move it e.g. in direction of the right shoulder or even beyond.
                            Do you feel the stress and the tendency to avoid this stress by breaking one arm in the ellbow?
                            Yes, the right ellbow will bend somewhen during the backswing, but only during the later wrist movement, Shawn refers to that as setting the club using the anatomical snuff box. There are some videos about that.
                            Bottom line, no full width is typically because of bending the right ellbow too early, caused by not having the arms in front of the body, but instead too inside.

                            Please also check out the famous Waldron YouTube video about body-arm illusion.

                            Final word, don‘t try to achieve width by swaying to the right side, stay centered.