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  • #31
    Hi Guys,

    Managed to get out last night on a strange course. Shot 19 over !!!!!!!!!!! Worst round for long long time.

    Tried to avoid standing up through the shot and with no compensations I was all over the place.

    Was pretty soul destroying. Lets face it we have all had days like that. I just wanted to report sometimes it doesnt go well. I have to keep believing. Cally you warned me this might happen so thanks for that. I think its important to talk about our faliure as well as success.

    Anyway I returned here and watched your edit inclusion video of the Hogan Power Move...drill.

    I can confirm that this is new information to me and that my right hip is indeed joining my left on the downswing in error. The idea that the right hip stays back and is joined by the left on downswing is indeed something I did not 'get'.

    This could be big wisdom I needed to know.

    My initial 'ghost swings' in office do seem to put swing on a much better path. Feels very strange. Its like my hip movement has been backwards to what you guys are doing.

    So once again ill regroup and give it a go.

    I love the logic of it, I love the clarity of Shawns video and analogy and im very thankful that you have posted this Cally.

    Between you and Shrode you have come up with many insights that I have overlooked.

    Please know I am grateful for this guys.

    I wonder how long this will take to feel natural. This really is a profound change.

    I'll report back.

    So this video is on 6.8.2018 (before I watched the hips video).


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_L5j...ature=youtu.be


    Last edited by Gmonkey; 08-07-2018, 06:41 AM. Reason: video hips and legs fault

    Comment


    • Cally
      Cally commented
      Editing a comment
      Gmonkey,

      Just to expand a little on what you're discovering . . .

      In the HPM drill video, the idea as Shawn emphasizes of the "right hip pocket remains in place" is key in clearing the hips properly. In my case, with a sway in the backswing, I wasn't creating, let alone maintaining, leverage with the rear leg in order to allow the right hip pocket to remain in place. Without this leverage it was difficult, if not impossible, to transfer or shift weight pressure to the lead leg, and as Shawn points out can lead to a spin out of the hips in the downswing. When done properly however, the hips stay back (no standing up in the downswing), and the leverage from the rear leg allows you to transfer weight pressure to the lead leg for a solid brace to compress through the ball. So with the HPM, it's crucial that the "right hip pocket remains in place" and then the left hip returns or clears to the left. For me, this is the understanding and feeling I needed to get for the proper mechanics to happen, and why the mere "out of the way" idea just wasn't doing it for me.

      Following the HPM videos, my understanding is that Shawn then put out the "Best Downswing Weight Shift" video as a stepping stone from the HPM. So I see the HPM drill video as more of a technical or mechanical video for gaining an understanding and feeling of how the hips should clear; and the "Best Downswing Weight Shift" video I see as more of a dynamic way to put this HPM in action where Shawn explains how the weight shift happens from behind us in the transition.

      Finally, Shawn has the more recent video I posted above entitled "Best Way to Learn Weight Shift and Transition - Take a Walk!" which I see is a further stepping stone from the earlier "Best Downswing Weight Shift" video. So I see these videos as sort of a series, and a way to transition from a technical or mechanical move to more of a seamless and subtle move that happens in the swing.

    • Gary
      Gary commented
      Editing a comment
      The video below about the Hogan Power Move explains when the lateral move happens. I use to think that the lateral move happened during the Through Swing Transition. The lateral move happens during your Backswing. This is why it is very important to hold that right leg position during the Through Swing.

      If you sway during your Backswing it will partially or totally cancel out the lateral move.

      Hogan Power Move: 4/3/2007
      X-Factor happens on the downswing. Lateral Move
      http://youtu.be/ggLTM9bfD54
      "Shawn says that Hogan's lateral move occurred in the backswing; and Shawn explains how Hogan maintained leverage with his right leg as he cleared his left side in the downswing. Maintaining leverage from the right against the left prevents a spin-out and allows the hips to clear properly." (Cally)
      A lateral movement occurs during the Backswing. The right hip, when it clears out of the way, is moving towards the target. There is your lateral move. The right hip holds its position and forces the left hip around and forward. This is the reverse K position.

      To me the lateral move during the Backswing is one of the most important parts of the Hogan Power Move.

      Thanks,

      Gary

  • #32
    Hi Cally this hip action explains so many things. Ill report back. Ill use the 'series' and see if i can execute it.

    Comment


    • #33
      Originally posted by Gmonkey View Post
      Hi Cally this hip action explains so many things. Ill report back. Ill use the 'series' and see if i can execute it.
      Gmonkey,

      Since we are on this topic, just thought I would post Shawn's most recent video (published today) on "Automatic Way of Clearing the Hips" . . .



      This "automatic" hip clearing is Shawn once again talking about employing a "task" and allowing the hip clearing to happen instinctively as a result of the "task." So this is what we ultimately want to achieve . . . an instinctive and automatic hip action move.

      Note in slow motion between the 3:12 and 3:18 marks, and also between the 4:35 and 5:00 marks, where Shawn "gets the ground" in the transition, and using the feet/knees/legs/hips you can see the HPM combined with the famous Sam Snead squat move as the hips clear.

      Comment


      • #34
        Coincidentally, all I've been doing at the range is hitting balls to a target (or cutting the dandelion stem - actually quite a long one = approx diameter of the ball) using the feet together drill 'properly' as per Shawn's old 'feet together addendum' video . Have had 4 sessions (120 balls per session) hitting PW, 8, 7, 6 and 23 degree hybrid and noticed that my 'balance /centering/ consistency of strike/rhythm/ direction' have all improved.

        It really is the 'drill of drills' but I don't like thinking about 'getting the ground' because it makes me think about pushing into the ground too quickly from the top of the backswing. As we discussed in a previous thread , as you transition into the early downswing, the squat will make you feel as if there is less pressure (ie. sort of weightless) between your feet and the ground before you start 'getting the ground' a little later to help move your 'hips/upper torso' out of the way. So it should feel like a 'fall up ' in the backswing, 'fall down' in early downswing , then 'fall up' from early downswing through impact to a target (all done subconsciously).

        PS. I think Shawn did a video with the feel analogy of 'extension/squat/extension' by jumping onto a step.


        Last edited by Schrodinger; 08-07-2018, 09:50 PM.

        Comment


        • #35
          Im back after quite a while away from golf. Played a practise 9 holes with multi balls and connection was good. Great in fact. On longer shots slight push.

          I have been getting the club much more out in front and that has greatly helped my swing path. This only by way of a rotary intent and no longer lateral.

          I was very happy with swing. Probably looked about 10 over to me.

          HOWEVER I got some random guy to video my drive and I was still early extending. On power shots its more noticable.

          Annoyed me to be honest because my plane looked good and my connection was great.

          I diagnosed the extention to force reaction and I watched lots of videos last nite trying to work out why good players seem to be immune from the devastating force of reacting to the club swing. I mean how the hell are they cheating centrpeatal force????

          After an hour of watching and another hour of thinking I wondered if swinging the weight of the club is wrong intent. If I swing the weight of the club and that causes Early Extention then im not gonna cheat that with any movement , position or swing thought. It simply has to be a wrong intent.

          So I wonder if people are swinging their arms and not considering the weight at the end of the club. I mean my EE is worse with long heavier clubs. On short irons its almost gone.

          So im wondering if the natural inclination to swing the weight of the club is wrong. Swing the arms from ground up with ass counterweight and just let the club swing through.

          Now I think about it thats how I would throw a club. I think the reason why people throw the club left initially when throwing clubs is they are reacting to the weight with wrong intent.

          I'll know in a few shots if this is right or wrong. Speak soon guys.

          Its strange because if you Early Extend due to force reaction then your CNS can budget for it and you can actually play some ok golf. Its only if you stop yourself early extending and then massive problems kick in.

          Having said that I will never play great golf with this wrong interpretation of swing.
          Last edited by Gmonkey; 02-28-2019, 07:02 AM.

          Comment


          • #36
            You probably don't want to hear how I solved this problem or even think it's worth pursuing but it does work on so many levels so here goes! I have found that the best way (for me) to combat EE and create a ton more compression and momentum toward my target is by 1: setting up taller in my posture at address, 2: addressing the ball with the club higher off the ground and further to the outside of the ball. (looks like you will completely create the dreaded "S" word) And lets be clear if you don't make room for the swing you will hit a "S". But by creating room for your hands in front ALA the football drill, on the down swing you are training your body to move into the ground and away from the ball as you come into impact. This provides you with room to use the ground to resist the pull of the club and room for your hands to stay in front and travel on their proper arc for the shot at hand. You can use tees or dry erase makers to provide a reference as to how well your face contact is progressing. It will cure your EE!!

            Comment


            • #37
              It seems that the biomechanic experts now think early extension with the longer clubs , especially the driver, is probably a good thing to generate clubhead speed.

              Here is the explanation:

              Ist link below is an explanation on ground forces (to me that is similar to Shawn's 'Centrifugal Pump')

              https://boditrakperformance.com/chea...the-downswing/

              Note this guy trying to hit a golf ball on ice and watch his feet movement, then check the 2nd link below and watch the video

              Click image for larger version

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              The 2nd link below " "The Relationship Between Lead Leg Force and Early Extension" - check out the video

              https://boditrakperformance.com/earl...stics-in-golf/




              Comment


              • #38
                Shrode are they saying that EE is restricted by pressure on lead leg?

                So how is Bubba off the ground through the strike?

                Hmmm Ill look into it when I got a bit more time.

                Comment


                • Schrodinger
                  Schrodinger commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Hi Gmonkey - Yes , I think they are inferring that people can push back on their rear foot better than push forward on their lead foot. So there is a mis-match in forces and you end up pushing your rear hip and centre of mass forward (ie. early extension).

                  They say that EE is problematic for irons because you need a descending angle of attack but it might be okay for the driver (which has a slight ascending angle of attack).

                  Bubba looks suspiciously like a 'reverse foot' golfer while Justin Thomas is known to be a 'reverse foot' golfer . That is, they get approx 60% weight pressure on their lead foot in the downswing (when their lead arm is parallel to the ground) , but for the rest of the downswing , the weight pressure progressively moves more to their rear foot all the way to impact. Front foot golfers move weight pressure progressively to their front foot in the downswing all the way to impact.

                  So yes , both Bubba and Justin show EE but they try and prevent it by pushing up and back from their forefoots and even end up on their toes. EE is a way to counteract the 'pseudo -centrifugal' pull of the club , which can be about 100 lbs force for a driver as it approaches impact (that's quite a lot imho).

                  PS. Just shows that some PGA pros can win many tournaments with EE (so maybe the purists are not entirely correct when they claim it's a fault)
                  Last edited by Schrodinger; 03-01-2019, 07:08 PM.

              • #39
                Well Shrode I took this to the course and it didn't work for me. My driving was not good. Pushes , pulls and could feel myself losing spine angle. Any attempt to override CNS and maintain posture was of course a disaster.

                Hit some good drives but im convinced it was just due to the usual compensations. Shot 12 over par and got a few lucky breaks.

                My swing intent fix didn't work and neither did your weight suggestion.

                My latest thoughts involve a profound change. I hope Gary or Costa can post a related Shawn video to what im about to say.

                So you guys will be please to hear that it is an intent change of thought not a positional alteration.

                I belive I generate power from golf in the same way I throw a ball over arm a far distance. That is ground forces whipping the arm through to target and inertia release.

                Ok so if you don't agree with that then what im gonna say prob wont make any sense. It may not anyway.

                So I was making slow motion swings in window reflection (I use that as a mirror at night) and I revisited the idea that it must be a hip or rotation issue. That is causing my EE.

                So as usual I did a few overarm slow motion throws (without a ball) and instead on focusing what the swing is doing I looked at how the hips move.

                Before I even noticed the hip move I was shocked at what my spine was doing.

                I have always felt like a have a broom stick running down my back and I kind of swing around the pole. That's the intent ive set up with since a kid.

                When I was throwing the ball it was clear that spine didn't feel like that on the throw.

                I went into my current golf swing and I was way too deep in right hip. No way I could throw a ball from back there. But why was I getting back deep in the right hip. What was the false thing I was trying to achieve? I think it maybe my misunderstanding of spine. That sound silly because the spine is not a working part but if you try and rotate around your spine that's what im saying may be wrong.

                Anyway I made my rotation as per the over arm throw with new spine intent and it felt very very strange but in a good way. No attempt to early extend. Also a much more free feeling of rotation.

                It literally feels as though my ass is way right through the shot.

                It has also instantly changed the way my hips work.

                It could be a game changer but I been here many times before. Ill need to take this onto the range and if it works ill make a video.

                Has Shawn got a spine angle video. Id very much like to hear what he says about this.




                Comment


                • #40
                  Originally posted by Gmonkey View Post

                  My latest thoughts involve a profound change. I hope Gary or Costa can post a related Shawn video to what im about to say.


                  So you guys will be please to hear that it is an intent change of thought not a positional alteration.


                  It could be a game changer but I been here many times before. Ill need to take this onto the range and if it works ill make a video.

                  Has Shawn got a spine angle video. Id very much like to hear what he says about this.
                  Hi guys,
                  Sorry, GM.... but I am not particularly adept at chronicling our Chairman's videos by subject matter?
                  However, I've dusted off one of my classic vintage concepts (it was in the back of my barn under an old, dusty green-Army tarp....musical quiz? bonus points if you can pinpoint the song??)
                  You waltzed right up to the answer, but decided not to dance?
                  Rather you launched right into more POSITIONAL ALTERATION discussion?

                  Do yourself (and those of us who are following along) a favor when you video?
                  Do a video of your genuine PRACTICE SWING and COMPARE it to your ACTUAL (with a ball) swing and see if you notice a difference in your EE?

                  I maintain that you were right on the money in your (red-highlighted) observation above.
                  But I"d be willing to wager that you'll find that you have NOT IMPLEMENTED that wonderful, purposeful observation?
                  See if the video bears me out.

                  I've said this before on this Forum and I'll say it again here...

                  It is not clear to me why we insist on trying to address a "NON-mechanical" problem with a "MECHANICAL" solution.

                  The same way that you suggest your INTENT is "different" when you throw the ball, I think you'll find that your INTENT is "different" when you make your "rehearsal swing".

                  Love this place and you guys

                  dude abides

                  Last edited by COSTA103; 03-03-2019, 09:24 AM.
                  "OLD" Forum Participation

                  Entry Date: 18-JAN-2011
                  Posts: 1813
                  Thank You: 1048

                  "Be water, my friends"

                  Comment


                  • kid_fullerene
                    kid_fullerene commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Dude

                    I am always in awe of your mysterious ways.. and right now am still baffled trying to figure out the song.. thanks for all you do .. and glad you continue to 'abide' here

                • #41
                  This the spine angle video I think of by Shawn
                   

                  Comment


                  • #42
                    Costa I will do what you have suggested. Practise swing and normal swing video. See what happens.

                    I dont fully understand why you think I have gone the positional route? I just made an observation in an action and applied it to golf. Out of desperation more than anything hhahaha. The EE is doing my head in (to use an English phrase that means incredibly frustratiing.

                    Gary thanks for the video. This video is more about what to do. I was talking about the possible false intent that prevents me from doing this right.

                    Im a big believer in false intent. I dont believe that I can set up to a golf shot with zero consciousness. My CNS is not passive. It is reacting to a task that I am setting. The problem is that I am giving it the incorrect task. I call that false intent. I believe that there are many false intents that make the correct technique impossible.

                    However I am willing to try anything. But asking me to play golf in some sort of unconscious state aint ever gonna happen. I dont play golf in my sleep.

                    I will report back and really appreaciate feedback guys. Cheers Costa, Shrode, Gary, Kid etc.....


                    Post soon as i can video.

                    Comment


                    • #43
                      Hi guys,

                      Let me tell you a story that I share with many of my clients...

                      Task Assignment: Palm of right-hand to Cheek of face (of another person)…

                      Option 1: Imagine a three-year-old child that has just done the most amazingly cutest thing you've ever witnessed? You pat him/her on the cheek....

                      Option 2: Now imagine a caress of a "significant other".... Totally different message being sent?

                      Option 3: Slap across the face of a hysterical person...

                      Option 4: Slap across the face of a "woman-scorned"???? Yikes! and finally.....

                      Option 5: "intent to Injure"...

                      I maintain if your "intent" was Option 5, you would NOT come at me with an "open palm"? You'd form a FIST! (sub-consciously, driven by your INTENTION)

                      Task is the same.....Intent is variable.....ACTION is dramatically DIFFERENT???

                      The point of differentiation between "rehearsal" swing and "actual" (with ball present) swing is that often-times the INTENT is DIFFERENT?

                      WHY?

                      If we're NOT going to USE the rehearsal-swing, WHY are we PRACTICING it???

                      Mr. Nicklaus once said many years ago that the secret to good golf was to swing your Driver the SAME as your Wedge?
                      In other words, the SWING is the SAME with every club in the bag...

                      My position is that it often comes down to "ego"... (most will deny that?? )
                      With the longer clubs, we want to hit the ball harder?
                      That's not the same "intent" as our rehearsal-swing, is it?

                      A recent conversation with a distinguished member of Crackpot National sprouted a vision which I believe has Merit...

                      "EGO-less" swing (as differentiated from our Chairman's "EFFORT-less" swing....

                      Hopefully more on that to follow...

                      Love this place and you guys

                      dude abides
                      Last edited by COSTA103; 03-06-2019, 08:00 AM.
                      "OLD" Forum Participation

                      Entry Date: 18-JAN-2011
                      Posts: 1813
                      Thank You: 1048

                      "Be water, my friends"

                      Comment


                      • Shawn Clement
                        Shawn Clement commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Interesting post Costa! In premium right now, we are dealing with “goldie locks” and the pre-motor cortex; it really complements what you are talkin about here and takes it to the next level!

                      • COSTA103
                        COSTA103 commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Nice of you to chime in, Mr. Chairman...
                        It has been a while since I've noticed you on this board?
                        I think that YOU (as an obviously uber-accomplished player, have long since accepted the notion of INTENTION as a driving force in our attempts...
                        Someone like ME, (as a less-obviously LESS-accomplished player) struggle to keep in mind on a daily basis.

                        You ARE what you THINK.
                        Positive thoughts result in Positive actions;
                        Negative thoughts result in Negative actions.

                        Many of us are unable to differentiate the two...

                        Love this place and you guys

                        dude abides

                    • #44
                      I can relate to a lot of that Costa. Ok will report back.

                      Comment


                      • #45
                        Update. After all these years. I am finally swinging on the correct axis. It is a profound change to what I had been doing.

                        I always suspected that I had a lateral fault in my movement but I had no idea how much.

                        Its a massive breakthrough. Full on rotary feel as the drive force and the initial fall in the swing very much more pronounced.

                        I'll post some vids soon.

                        Im going to go back to a few of Shawns old classics to review the swing path.

                        Im convinced I have the pivot right and that is the swing engine. The rest should fall into place now with trial and error.

                        The divots I was taking on short irons are like NOTHING I have done before. Nice long stripes after the ball. An the ball is being taken clean so in this soft ground im 100% its ball first.

                        Im feeling close now. Not had an AHA moment like this for a long time.

                        Videos when wind dies down. Constant storms at the moment for me.



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