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  • #61
    Originally posted by Gmonkey View Post
    I’m trying Costa. I think I have got the pivot down now but seems that my old release isn’t compatible.

    im certain I have been swinging to target.

    the nail thing was hit and miss.

    i feel I need more rotation in the swing through the ball.

    good news is that body rotation and spine is much much better. The correct release will come.

    It’s hard to let go of old habits
    Hi guys,
    Happy Easter to everyone! (sure sign of Spring?)

    A bit of a notion about the concept of "release"?
    IMHO, "release" is NOT something that we DO? Rather, it is something that "happens"?

    Think about this for a minute... Under the pre-2019 Rules of Golf when we were executing a "drop" under a Relief condition...
    We held the ball out at arm's length and..... did what?
    We were holding onto the ball and then we "let go" (released)

    Did you concern yourself with if your FINGERS moved first or your THUMB moved first? Did they move at the same time?

    Of COURSE you didn't. You just CEASED holding onto the ball?

    In a rotary motion of the human-machine with the Intent of swinging to a Target, RELEASE is inevitable and automatic.
    The only thing that we can do to affect release is to INTERFERE. We do something to PREVENT the Release?
    The more we think about Release, the more we are apt to "get in its way"...

    Just "let go" and the Release will happen...

    Love this place and you guys

    dude abides


    "OLD" Forum Participation

    Entry Date: 18-JAN-2011
    Posts: 1813
    Thank You: 1048

    "Be water, my friends"

    Comment


    • #62
      Ok will let go.

      I have gone back to throwing the club and can now throw it down the line. Not had a chance to hit balls yet.

      Feels natural and doesn’t feel like I’m releasing at the ball.



      Will Report back. Thanks Costa

      Comment


      • #63
        Went the 9 hole training course today . Threw the club down the line into long grass. Weight and spine felt good.

        tried to let go and release felt way more out in front and target wards than I’ve ever felt.

        Played to that new release feel with great results. My Take away intent wants to change. Reminds me of Shawns stop crashing video. Wrist hinge feels way less rotation.

        Few big hooks happened but no push shot. It’s literally a release point well further targetwards. Maybe I have been releasing at the ball.

        I play a full size 18 tomorrow. Will get playing partner to video and post.

        edit. Impact now feels like a strike with both hands. This is a different feel from my previous left side feel swing with right coming along for a ride. Only body rotation has made this impact option possible.
        Last edited by Gmonkey; 04-23-2019, 03:13 PM.

        Comment


        • #64
          I’ve may have unblocked a massive wall of stupidity in my understanding.

          ive been obsessing and I mean obsessing about the throw vs swing to target.

          ive watched about three Shawn videos on constant loop and also slow motion swings.

          I sorted my hip turn and liked my downswing throw action but it was still inconsistent. Low pulls being the common fault.

          so back I went to throwing club.

          ive now concluded that there is rotation in the right arm on the backswing that I had not accounted for. I mean who would think rotation in the arm would be a good thing ? Yet I realised I do it in a throw , punch, badminton smash etc.

          i thought any rotation would mess with the club face but it doesn’t. Not if it’s with right arm from say elbow.


          Understand the Shawn shutter door / garage door thing now.

          I’ve always been tempted to rotate with left hand and hang the face down wide open and I know that’s wrong. This other way I think is the proper way to do it.

          perhaps now my swing won’t be so compact .

          throwing the club is key. The faults are starting to identify themselves now. I must keep faith that the throw action is correct and match that to the body rotation to send to target.

          Video as soon as I can .

          speak soon lads
          Last edited by Gmonkey; 05-09-2019, 10:40 AM.

          Comment


          • #65
            Hi GM

            glad to hear that your work continues - I read with interest on your latest and my hope is to contribute to your progress in a good way.

            Here's my premise - is that you might benefit from a perspective and understanding on the notion of 'release' in your golf swing. The various backswing, rotational and anatomical things are all about how those forces all combine to accelerate the clubhead.

            My favorite dynamic to see it work mechanically is shown in a couple of ways within this video.

            What led to my useful understanding of it is the slapshot hockey demonstration and the one hand high/one hand low grip .. gathering the puck (or golf ball if you want to use a club) and sending it where you want.

            It helped me see how the stick actually works in terms of a word that I could never quite process .. 'leverage'.. and how the tool actually works to put leverage on the ball and convert it to compression and speed.

            one way to watch this video is to start at about the 5 minute mark and see his golf demonstration and then work backward to view the analogies and demonstrations through that viewpoint.




            Hopefully it will help you take away a notion of how the mechanics and acceleration turn into a throw in the WIG swing.

            While all golf swings have a 'throw' or a 'throwlike' component .. they can and do occur in different places within golf swings ..depending on the how/where/when the arms are syncing to the body - which can and will give you different appearances and feels.

            the summary of this - maybe observe how your 'slapshot' turns into a throwing feel and figure out what backswing and drop works best with it .. it might be a way to help you find the congruent and relevant elements in your swing.

            the sort of 'end in mind' approach ..

            cheers for now

            k_f



            from the hidden Ravine below 13th at CN G&CC
            tu nunquam hic

            Secret Swing Tech c/o Pigaman @ Crackpot Labs

            wisdomingolf.com/index.php?option=com_ku...&id=47972&Itemid=225

            let energy instead of style define you.

            Proud Member 'Quote Yourself Club'

            Comment


            • #66
              Gmonkey,

              Have you read Fred Shoemakers Extraordinary Golf? If not, give it a read (along with his follow up Extraordinary Putting).

              Fred's approach dovetails nicely with Shawn"s. The two work well together. I think Fred's writing provide a nice "big Picture" view of improvement and how to accomplish it, especially when he talks about awareness. The book also covers throwing clubs and how to take that feel to the swing.

              From following your posts, I think the book would clarify a lot of the issues you present.

              Comment


              • COSTA103
                COSTA103 commented
                Editing a comment
                I have BOTH of the books that 'alf is proposing. Both EXCELLENT!

                dude abides
                Last edited by COSTA103; 05-11-2019, 01:00 PM.

            • #67
              Thanks Al. I’ll look into those books.

              Ive just worked out there are two ways to rotate your right arm. I’ve been doing it wrong.

              correct way is literally like a throw. I’ve been rotating too much in the forearm.

              my hinge feels great.

              Could be very important. Maybe now throwing to target will work .

              Feels exactly how it sets in a one arm swing.

              ok I’ll report and see if I can get those books.

              Comment


              • #68
                Been doing lots of one arm right hand swings.

                Been learning a lot.

                Proper backswing is automatic because of the weight of the club. Also a much more natural move to the left side is intuitive.

                The move to the left looks like how Shawn and co start the downswing. It also happens in my throwing action.

                Maybe ball focus has stopped me from previously doing this.

                Im not certain its ball focus because this feels natural and intuitive in a one handed swing (even hitting a ball). Whereas when you get two hands on the club somehow your intent changes and this doesnt seem like a good idea.

                I am going to retain this intent in my two handed swing. Its a move toward target and also a rotary move at the same time. Pitchers do this in a throw. I always knew there was some movement towards target in the swing and this could be it. I think many people put in a linear sway but this is more forward and around.

                Will report back.

                If nothing else the one handed swing 100% sorts the backswing out.

                Comment


                • #69
                  Originally posted by Gmonkey View Post

                  Im not certain its ball focus because this feels natural and intuitive in a one handed swing (even hitting a ball). Whereas when you get two hands on the club somehow your intent changes and this doesnt seem like a good idea.
                  Hi guys,

                  WHOSE "intent" IS it, Greg? One either has control over one's mental-intent or not? IF, somehow "...your intent changes...", WHERE did it change TO?
                  We have to stop considering this SHIFT in mental-intention as some third-party, inevitable, unavoidable phenomenon?
                  WE are (or should be) the master of our mental-intention...
                  WE are responsible for our intention, as well as any "change" in it....

                  Insisting that we are NOT "ball-focused" is all well and good, but if not at the ball, where did you cause your intention to shift?

                  I'll go away quietly now....
                  Be water, my friends...

                  dude abides
                  "OLD" Forum Participation

                  Entry Date: 18-JAN-2011
                  Posts: 1813
                  Thank You: 1048

                  "Be water, my friends"

                  Comment


                  • #70
                    Valid point Costa. I freely admit I dont know why my intent changes from one handed swing to two handed swing. Im fully prepared to believe it is because of ball focus. If after all this time I have been ball focused whilst desperatly trying not to be then logically I cant understand what it has meant to be ball focused. Thats the paradox. hahahaha.

                    All im saying is that in both swings (one and two handed) the ball is in the same place and you have same task. It does kind of seem strange that one would be ball focused and the other not?


                    Anyway im putting in the one arm intent into the two arm swing. That is driven by the rotation infront of the ball with the initial ground forces and hip bump leading the show. Weight on front side from the top (braced tilt). Id like to think that this isnt ball focused. Time will tell. One thing is for sure you catch the ball on an upswing. An upswing that deliveres a downwards blow.

                    This intent has only been made possible with 3 aha breakthrough moments. 1. throwing the club down the line and not left. (hands at impact vs address). This is proven feedback. 2. Correct backswing arm action. Previously this has been wrong but the one handed swing has taught me to set the club with correct weight and arm and wrist automatic action. Top of backswing now feels exactly like the top of the backswing in a throw. 3. The move to the left side. The swing intent takes me target side and around (feeling like infront of the ball). Nice post up on front leg as a result. Exactly like shore fishing and an overarm throw. Previously this has been wrongly achieved by a sway and latterly with no intent of targetwards move that has resulted in the early extention.


                    Anyway Costa this all seems very contrived but I promise you I have got this down to a very natural action that feels just like im slinging the club targetwards and the ball is getting in the way. It seems to adhere to all of Shawns videos I have watched a thousand times. The big key is correct backswing. I could have worked it out a long time ago. I have always thought hands were key in the backswing but it is the action of the right forearm that has really sabotaged my progress.

                    Hopefully my next swing video will have you pronounce me free of ball focus once and for all.

                    Thanks Costa. Speak soon.





                    Comment


                    • COSTA103
                      COSTA103 commented
                      Editing a comment
                      I stand ready, with gavel poised...

                  • #71
                    Hi WIG Friends..

                    been following along and remain optimistic that GM will dial in his understanding and feels for his next breakthrough.

                    this can get a little tricky, especially when you go down the path of 'intention' and 'throwing action'

                    one of the core tenets of WIG is the notion of getting an 'heavy unstoppable dropping weight' and then allowing the entirety of the Arm/Club Unit release automatically.

                    the WIG Throwing videos often work best with the premise of throwing a big heavy medicine ball..

                    now with 1 handed swings and the corresponding feels and actions.. you're on kind of a parallel path..

                    it's valid - but I'm confident that you already know that..

                    if you can compare the concepts in WIG to what you're working on .. I think it might reveal a lot

                    cheers for now

                    k_f
                    from the hidden Ravine below 13th at CN G&CC
                    tu nunquam hic

                    Secret Swing Tech c/o Pigaman @ Crackpot Labs

                    wisdomingolf.com/index.php?option=com_ku...&id=47972&Itemid=225

                    let energy instead of style define you.

                    Proud Member 'Quote Yourself Club'

                    Comment


                    • #72
                      My connection is good. Very good at the moment. Push shot still most common fault.

                      I havent video myself so not sure if I still stand through the shot.

                      Been throwing my clubs into the long grass. See attached pic. I LOST MY CLUB FOR 20 MINS IN THAT DAMN GRASS .........hahahhahahahaha

                      I dont feel I have got it yet. I'll need to post my swing and get some more advice from you guys.


                      Click image for larger version

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                      • #73
                        Still no joy. Still hip thrusting toward the ball. Contact is great always however release seems to rely on unconcious standing through the downswing. Still no idea why im doing it. Should I feel as though my swing is behind me more? maybe that would allow my posture to delay the extension?? I dunno. Im struggling now. Maybe Ive taken it as far as I can. The EE doesnt effect short irons as much so im playing to 9-10 over. The push right is costing me 5 shots a round. Id be steady low singles without it. Ive tried the face on view and took a photo of my impact. Those who understand will see the glaring errors. The stand through the shot is natural and clearly a result of something im doing beforehand. I bet the solution is simple but elusive. It aint trying to keep my butt on a wall or chair because then im just gonna shank it or heel it or deck it. I need an intent fix.

                        One day im gonna fully sort this and what a post that will be.........but not today hahaha

                        https://youtu.be/UcFrOQTBzPs


                        https://youtu.be/7sWskgsf0Mc


                        Comment


                        • TarHeelGolfer
                          TarHeelGolfer commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Tempo is too fast Gmonkey.

                        • Schrodinger
                          Schrodinger commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Hi Gmonkey - Check out your right hand grip in slow motion on your DTL view. Your fingers and thumb are getting pried loose in the backswing and you are regripping at the top/transition ready for downswing. What about tweaking your ball position a bit more towards the target (maybe an inch) because your ball trajectory looks quite low . You seem to be releasing a bit early but that could be because the ball position is a bit too far back in your stance.

                          So imho, ball position a little more forward in your stance and stabilising the right hand grip (ie. a firmer grip but not so much that it stops your wrists being oily).
                          Last edited by Schrodinger; 06-21-2019, 12:52 PM.

                      • #74
                        Hi GM

                        honestly as a motion and swing pattern it looks pretty good .. a lot to like about it and clearly some good progress with I believe a lot of upside with relatively little 'rework'..

                        the apparent 'Gordian Knot' of this is that I think that you need to get your chin up off your chest.. I think that you're cutting the actual arm extension and resulting Driver path off .. and having to work the club a bit up and in and then swing with the shoulders to make up the speed is all of a piece.

                        I would have you try and mark out a path or use a headcover or object the reinforces the optics of having the head of the club a bit more away from you and then working up to your backswing..

                        I think the bigger arc and longer resulting drop and acceleration would give you the same swing speed without the 'quick through' cut that you can't always time..

                        I believe that your current sightline and optics work OK with the shorter clubs as it's more natively where the action will take place .. I think that working from longer irons into hybrids and then into driver might help you get the sense of wider arc and resulting longer tempo ..

                        This won't be easy - as you have patterned this and likely can make it work most of the time ..but depending on what shot you're trying to play or the line you're playing .. relying on a relatively high tempo driver swing to generate speed is kind of challenging..

                        if I could get you a sense of a higher chin and resulting eyeline and a grip and path a bit more away from you and have you get used to that .. I think that you would make a step forward.

                        I also think that with having to put less power into the swing and have more Gravity/Momentum in it .. the grip issues would likely be resolved as well..

                        just my 2 cents ..

                        cheers

                        k_f

                        from the hidden Ravine below 13th at CN G&CC
                        tu nunquam hic

                        Secret Swing Tech c/o Pigaman @ Crackpot Labs

                        wisdomingolf.com/index.php?option=com_ku...&id=47972&Itemid=225

                        let energy instead of style define you.

                        Proud Member 'Quote Yourself Club'

                        Comment


                        • #75
                          Great comments lads. All of them. Will implement and report back . Can see merit in all your feedback .

                          Have a a good weekend

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