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  • #76
    And here is a very inspiring video which shows you don't need to shift weight onto a front leg to hit the ball. What this proves is that the body will find a way if you have the correct focus intent.


    • #77
      Hi guys I have been working through your comments.

      first thing was shrodingers observation that my hand came off the club in backswing. I wondered why this was. I had no idea why I was doing this. Anyway I realised I did not do this in my one handed swing. So I put the same feel into my swing. It feels way more pressure on the top of the shaft. Certainly a different feel and my thumb now feels much better grip. Their is much less of a lateral feeling in backswing. I thought this was picking up the club but it clearly isn’t.

      kid.... I have added width and slowed down my swing.

      Cally im gonna work in the weight distribution.

      So feeling more positive now and hitting some good shots. The new hinge does feel like I’m hammering down more and I get more check spin on wedge.

      I think the feel of down instead of out will help my EE.

      so I’m down and out hahaga

      speak soon forum friends


      • #78
        Aha Shrodinger. That’s a big clue. I went back up to the club today. I worked out how to swing without that thumb release on the backswing. It put me on the same plane as the one handed swing.

        I then swung to target with the swing releasing the club.

        to me it felt like an over the top chop left. It’s completely different to what I’ve been doing. I think the over the top feeling is immune to the early extension because the forces are not pulling you out.

        hmmmmm this really could be a breakthrough. I mean the spin I could get on short check wedges was incredible.

        Prepare to judge Costa . Video soon


        • #79
          Hi Cally mate. I’m struggling to get Shawns weight videos you posted.

          When you power throw a ball you move over your right hip. You don’t back to target with the feel of lead leg one leg swing. Nobody throws like that.

          Same with the feet together thing. The feet together drill stops you going from right hip to left.

          Im going to take a look at Sean’s swings to see if he actually does this in his real swing. I don’t see one tour swing that complies to those videos.

          Ill look into this because odds on I’m wrong. I’m an early extender and Shawn is border line genius. But look at Rory’s hip action et al. They do not do what is being suggested here?


          • #80
            There is definitely something in what you are telling me Cally. It’s down to me to understand it.

            My backswing hip turns incorrectly and moves toward ball on downswing. I also see they good players extend but not at the same time as me.

            Ok mate . I’ll post soon. Hips are key. And hips are weight distribution. Agreed. Work to do.

            I have sorted the thumb off issue as per shrodinger post but am still struggling to get correct tempo as per kids post. But the hips is the key to it all I think and weight distribution error must be the issue. Agreed

            Speak soon


            • #81
              Now you might already be aware that I am a golf nerd when it comes to biomechanics stuff , so I sort of look at all the varying opinions from people who seem to know (or claim to know) a lot more about the physics and biomechanics of the golf swing. And there are so many opinions that it would drive one insane !!!!

              What I am explaining below theoretically explains right hip spinning and also EE.

              For example here is a video by Sasho Mackenzie (quite famous in his field and well respected for his research in biomechanics). What he says in this video is backed up by research from other respected people and they claim ground forces are the key to hip rotation and early extension.


              Both agree that 'EE' is bad for irons but could be useful for driver clubhead speed, so that makes it complicated to decide whether it's a golf swing fault or not (I suspect the answer will be 'it depends').

              But then there are others who claim that pelvic rotation in the early downswing (ie . from top of backswing to left arm at 9 o'clock ) has nothing to do with generating rotation via shear forces between the feet and ground . They claim that what you feel on the ground is a reaction to muscular contractions in your pelvic hip girdles. If you imagine there are 'elastic band' type muscles connecting as shown below (rear view- muscles represented by the red and blue lines) , and you somehow weight pressure your body so that points 2 and 4 are relatively fixed in space. Then you contract those muscles , it would rotate the left side of your pelvis around your right leg away from the target line (until pelvis is square to target line). That rotation of the pelvis will cause an equal and opposite rotation on your right leg/foot and you would then feel a shear force between the foot and ground , but this is a reaction to pelvic rotation .

              But the rest of the pelvic turn from 9 o'clock to follow-through are caused by ground forces (because your pelvic muscles have already 'maxed' out and cannot rotate the pelvis anymore)

              That subtle difference in the biomechanics of the pelvic rotation in the early downswing can make the difference between having enough space to swing your arms through to target or worse, a 'right hip spin' and an OTT. Even more problematic would be if you shifted too much weight onto your left leg in the early downswing and contracted those same red/blue lined muscles on the left side of your pelvis. What do you think would happen to the pelvis in that scenario? The right side of your pelvis would rotate away from the target line, so you would have no option but to use your right glute to extend your right leg and help push your right hip towards target line (hey presto! a nice early extension goat humping move).

              Hope this makes sense! But the easy way is to use external focus and let your body find its path of least resistance to meet your intended task .

              Thinking about ground forces and specific contractions of pelvic girdle muscles would, as Shawn said on many occasions, short circuit your kinetic sequence. But I do like understanding the logic of what is happening to our body to make tasks happen (but the problem is figuring out which opinion is closer to the truth).

              Click image for larger version  Name:	LRPPelvisAnatomyThree.jpg Views:	0 Size:	33.0 KB ID:	12646

              PS. Here is a video which explains it better than me.

              Last edited by Schrodinger; 06-28-2019, 07:18 PM.


              • #82

                I've watched your videos about fifty times, at full speed and at 25 percent speed, and I think I have the solution to your issues. Give what I suggest a try to find out. If I'm wrong, you'll know pretty quickly and you can go back to what your working on. I suggest you do the first part of this away from the range and then try it hitting balls.

                This is what I gleamed from watching the videos: Your swing motion is very good. All the elements of a full, solid, powerful swing are there. I don't see anything in your motion that is causing the problem. So it must be something else. And I think that something else is in your set up. Your set up, specifically your posture, looks technically sound, but it does not look athletic. I think you are standing too upright and not using your quads. In effect, you are setting up in a way that you are fighting the anatomy of your hips, trying to force them to do something they don't want to do. Try setting up in a way that matches your anatomy, and fees up your hips.

                To my eye, you need to sit back in your stance, almost like your sitting down on a stool behind you an feel your quads activate. That's just a semi-educated guess on where you'll end up, but you need to find the set up that matches your anatomy.

                So, how do we find the set up that matches your anatomy?

                Here are three different tests for you to try. I suggest you go through them in the order presented. When I do these tests, the three results are very similar. This part you can do away from the range.

                1. Watch this video from Fred Shoemaker, particularly from 1:00 to 2:15 and give his test a try. The video is from a TV show, so they rush through the process. Take your time, do it a number of times, and really focus awareness on how your body feels, where the muscles are activated, and how the athletic set up differs from your current set up. Pay attention to the small stuff. (When I do this, I note that my knees turn in about an inch when I'm fully engaged. I tried relaxed knees and engaged knees on the range and engaged knees work a bit better for me. So the small stuff is important.)


                Try moving while doing the test. Pretend you are a basketball player and you are guarding Lebron James driving the lane. Move left and right. Or pretend you are a goalie in football/soccer and you have a player charging you with the ball.

                2. Take your stance and jump straight up as high as you can and land solidly on your feet. Hold your LANDING position. Be aware of your posture, which muscles are activated and your balance. (When I do this, I end up very close to where I end up after doing the test in the video above.) Do this several times. You can start from your current set up and from the one you find from doing the video test. It's the landing position that's important.

                3. Take a fairly heavy object--your full golf bag works well--get in your new stance, palms up and hold your golf bag in your arms. Swing it back and forth, like you are going to toss it in a lake after a bad round. Pay particular attention to your hips--are they freed up? Try the same thing with your current set up--which is more powerful and stable?

                After you have found an athletic set up, take it to the range. It will feel strange for a while. Do the perpetual motion drill from the new set up focus your awareness on your balance and how your hips move. Then step up and hit a ball. When I first did this, I hit a lot of shots about half an inch toward the toe. It took a short while for my perception to change and to start hitting shots in the center of the club face. The motion felt very good, but the new set up looked different to my eye and I had to adjust.

                When I do this, my feet end up in the same position that they do when following Shawns set up advice about standing on one leg and dangling the other to find your natural hip position. But my posture is quite different from my old set up.

                Give that a try. I may be full of crap. If so, I won't be offended by you saying so after trying it. But the suggestion is offered genuinely. It may solve your issues.


                • #83
                  Alfriday welcome to the thread. I always listen to any contributions. Thanks. I’ve always had that hunched look. It’s a combo of bad posture and rounded shoulders. I’ll look at those excersises and feedback.

                  shrode.... you took it beyond a level my mind can cope with. I’m hanging on to the belief that correct intent will correct the way body parts work. It’s not a blind belief because I can throw a tennis ball, launch a fishing lead smash a badminton shot with no EE and massive separation. Also my right hook ain’t to bad hahaha. Your thumb suggestion has taken me down the rabbit hole a few more feet tho. That confirmed I was still too lateral. I can now hinge without the thumb off. Feels good.

                  Cally, always love to hear from you buddy. Shawns turn in the backswing sure has stumped me. All I can think of is that he must rejoin the area of leverage over the right hip on his way back around. I mean a full turn like that could not throw a javelin or a punch or a ball. I notice his pitching video turn is nothing like that. I fully admit I don’t understand his move there. I bet he understands this point and has an answer.

                  so what I’m working on is more of the throwing action to target. That is a true throw where the right arm almost gets to the ball before the three right hand throw kicks in. The evolution of shrodingers point has led me here.

                  My balance is still poor (cally) and tempo not right (kid).

                  so from rotary inside swing feel with too much lateral ive gone to correct thumb but over the top chop and now will go thumb secure throw with feel of right elbow lead. This feels and looks as if the club path almost changes direction through the strike. Certainly the centrepeal pull is later in the swing and that’s what I’m hoping will address the EE.

                  I did hit some storming drives with the over hand chop but it ain’t right. I’ll post a drive that I measured at 278 yards that I videoed.

                  I honestly think I may have worked out what the throwing action looks like in the swing and Shawn DEFINITELY does it. It’s just his hips and ass turn that I question.


                  • #84
                    Over the top thumb secure attempt to cure EE. Tomorrow throwing action on downswing attempt to cure EE



                    • #85
                      Yeah Cally my right heel does lift and feels like it’s lifting .
                      This was my one attempt at this swing.

                      It’s a thumb on shaft swing upwards with the feeling of swinging behind me but the body takes it through the ball.

                      ball flight is a 15 yard cut shot that starts slightly left of centre and heads right.

                      my usual swing fault is a straight push if I don’t naturally time the standing up. In fact I’m pretty ok at timing the stand on cns. It’s when I try not to EE I get the faults .

                      next version will be the arm throw release. I’m 100% sure my release is wrong as well as my weight.

                      ive always been able to launch the ball quite far. Unlike most I have zero obsession with distance. I’m pretty certain to hit 270 ish every swing. My average club head is 106 mph ( I think ) on track man .

                      On backswing I feel like I’m in the middle of my right foot. On transition (I think I’m move to left foot before I swing down) and then I stand up through the hit with my right foot lifting through the stand.

                      So my EE saves the push with the inside version of this swing and the EE saves the pull with this over the top version.

                      both require the stand through the hit to play well.

                      thats the problem.

                      All good players extend they just don’t do it when I do. Weight and release next changes. Report back

                      speak soon
                      Last edited by Gmonkey; 06-29-2019, 01:21 PM.


                      • #86
                        Hi Gmonkey

                        Maybe this old SC video might give you a few ideas. I did notice in the late backswing that your right elbow is tucked in close to your right side maybe because you feel more 'connected' in your early downswing.

                        The disadvantage of having such a folded right arm is that it's in a really powerful position to extend and you might be tempted to create power very early in the downswing which could risk active muscular wrist torque (ie. using the wrists to release the club rather than centripetal pull via your arms).This means you will probably release the club (and get peak clubhead speed) too early in the downswing rather than at /through impact. The premature straightening of the right arm/wrist before impact could also cause the clubface to flip or rotate too quickly as it approaches the ball and will need very precise timing to square the clubface by impact. You could get a whole variety of different shots dependent on your timing skills.

                        PS. Note what Shawn says is the 'true cause' in the video .
                        Last edited by Schrodinger; 06-30-2019, 10:23 AM.


                        • #87
                          I worked on the weight today , my backswing and swinging to target.

                          I might have finally made the breakthrough. I’ve been dropping the club behind and getting the turn to unload the lag to target. This produces EE.

                          while i was working on weight (Cally) it seemed to make more sense to throw out from body and let the turn take it through the shot. This might be it.

                          So it’s not a downward throw it’s more of a sideways throw. I’m not great at sideways throws but I’m learning.

                          Are you guys throwing the club away from your centre of gravity and letting rotation take you through the club. For some reason extension is later in this swing. Probably when both arms straighten.

                          This is could be it. With this swing I don’t crash into my left side , the EE is after the ball is gone and the power is effortless. There is also no lateral temptation. I can now understand Shawns ability to make that huge turn in the backswing. He is heading out and down.

                          course was busy so next time video.

                          This could actually be it. I’m excited .

                          speak soon.


                          • #88
                            What you just wrote Cally is exactly how the new intent feels.

                            I have been trying to throw down the line when it is a sideways throw out infront and rotation takes it through.

                            This creates way more room. I always had the crashing look into my left side. Thats now gone.

                            I obsessively watched a video called over head golf swings. Shawn has a video on that too that i watched loads.

                            Anyhow I noticed how the club came around on the downswing and always questioned if mine did that. I was pretty sure it didnt.

                            Now im certain my downswing does this and I know its silly but when I swing now I can picture the Arnold Palmer overhead view hahahahaha.

                            I'll post soon as I get a chance to play.

                            Cant wait to show you guys. I really hope this is it.

                            Costa ....waits to judge hahahahaha

                            Ill post by end of week Cally. Ive literally been sneaking out to play 9 holes every day !!! hahahah Its June....Why not........well actually July now haha

                            Oh yeah and I understand Shawns backswing now......and John Daly move and Bubba. I know what they are doing.
                            Last edited by Gmonkey; 07-02-2019, 07:28 AM.


                            • #89
                              just a heads up Cally. That video of Shawns with the 'golf bike hahaha' is outstanding. thanks.

                              Expands on what you were saying Alfriday athletic set up and ground up.


                              • #90
                                Sorry I have not enough time to search today, but for me the best feeling of throwing the club is described in the video with the rope. If you exercise to sling that heavy rope, there is only one way to do that efficiently. That is exactly how to throw. BTW, you can only give the rope a good whip in direction to a target, if you hold back your activity, the whip happens quite late, more on the left side of the body for a right handed player.