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  • Hi Gmonkey

    "I have just been letting my wrists uncock by the swing but its more than that its the rotary release of the second pendulum. I have to also get my backswing to match this intent."

    I'm guessing you are considering using active wrist 'torque' ?

    Imho, that is not a good idea (see below if you want to delve further using swing models that tested this out). Note the bolded statement at the bottom .

    ---------------------------------------------------------

    "positive wrist torque causes the club to unfold early, and therefore causes the clubhead speed to peak early, and with a lower velocity. Common symptoms include a pronounced swishing sound that peaks before impact, drop-kicked shots (club ricochets off the ground before impact), shots with a high trajectory, and often problems with big high fades or slices. Researchers who have tracked the swing speed for golfers with a range of handicaps find that only golfers with low single-figure handicaps or better come close to hitting the ball at the peak clubhead speed. For most golfers, the club is decelerating through impact."


    Click image for larger version

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    The chart above plots the approximate driving distance versus wrist torque with almost all other parameters kept the same. Remember that wrist torque has two effects on clubhead speed. It (a) peaks at a lower clubhead speed and (b) peaks earlier in the downswing.
    • The blue curve assumes that the golfer changes his swing so impact still occurs at the peak. We shorten or lengthen the swing so that impact will occur at maximum clubhead speed. This golfer is then only bitten by (a) above.
    • The red curve assumes that the golfer simply makes the same length swing no matter what the wrist torque. This golfer is then bitten by both (a) and (b). Negative wrist torque also costs distance because the clubhead speed peaks after impact (i.e., impact is at the black line in the curve above).
    Even if we assume that the ball is hit at the peak head velocity (blue curve), the difference between a beginners swing (10% wrist torque) and a swing with no wrist torque is about 20 m in distance. More typically the beginner will take the same backswing as a low handicap golfer and lose the distance indicated by the red curve – nearly 40 m!

    This is a very tough lesson, yet all of us have experienced the occasion when we relax, try not to hit a ball too hard, and hit the best drives of our lives. Learn to relax, to shorten your grip, and not to use your hands.
    Attached Files

    Comment


    • Gmonkey
      Gmonkey commented
      Editing a comment
      I dont follow you Shrode. @6.00 in the Shawn video I posted above he performs a classic badminton smash action with right hand one hand grip on the club. He explains the rotation im talking about in this element of the video. What he is demonstration is how to perform a throwing action while holding a long lever.

      I cant follow your analysis. Im too dumb.

    • Schrodinger
      Schrodinger commented
      Editing a comment
      Hi Gmonkey

      When there is forward shaft bend on the club in the late downswing , you can try and uncock your wrists as fast as you like but you will never be able to increase clubhead speed (the club is moving too quickly 'rotationally' for your hands to physically keep up unless you are exceptionally strong). When I mean 'rotationally' see that green line in the attached file image above.

      The problem I find when I actively try and uncock my wrists (ie. radial to ulnar deviation) is that my forearms tend to rotate faster , and that means a high 'rate of clubface rotation' (making squaring the clubface by impact more difficult- your timing will need to be perfect). Also I might develop a habit of uncocking my wrists too early in the downswing and cause a 'casting' fault in my swing.
      Last edited by Schrodinger; 4 weeks ago.

  • Originally posted by Gmonkey View Post
    I have just been letting my wrists uncock by the swing but its more than that its the rotary release of the second pendulum.
    Greg,

    You might like this unlisted video that Shawn did for the feel of "the rotary release of the second pendulum" . . .

    Comment


    • Gmonkey
      Gmonkey commented
      Editing a comment
      Ive seen something by Shawn thats like this. I couldnt apply this because you need rotary intent for this to work. Basically on a lateral swing intent you simply would never swing the club on the correct relationship to the club face. So now this makes perfect sence. My mind now understands how this action squares the face through release. That is a very important piece of the jigsaw i missed.

    • Schrodinger
      Schrodinger commented
      Editing a comment
      There are a few ways to square the clubface.

      1. Whole left arm can actively rotate
      2. The forearms can rotate (both left and right)
      3. The 'Ryke Effect'
      4. A mix of all the above.

      The 'Ryke Effect' will feel as if the clubface is being squared automatically (with very passive forearms/wrists) and to all intents and purposes , you might think it is 'gravity' doing that (but it isn't - it's the clubs inertia and its very complicated to explain). Even the guy (Kevin Ryan) who discovered this phenomenon several years ago , has not yet found a mathematician to figure it all out to his satisfaction (which is why he has delayed the publication of his book). Kevin Ryan can explain the squaring part but he wants to know whether there is proof that this same effect can also increase clubhead speed.
      Last edited by Schrodinger; 4 weeks ago.

  • There are quite a few different hand release actions being advocated out there (as well as Shawns baton twirl analogy). But which ones are more natural and do any of them create more clubhead speed or accuracy of strike? Which ones would require more exquisite timing than the other?

    1. AJ Bonar - rolling hand release left hand facing the sky . Actually this is active left/right forearm rotation through impact (with maybe a bit of rotation of the left/right humerus).

    Click image for larger version  Name:	BonnerMagicMove.jpg Views:	0 Size:	37.5 KB ID:	12708

    2. Robert Baker - Flipping Hand Release - left wrist allowed to bend through impact as right wrist straightens

    Click image for larger version  Name:	BakerNonDHTwo.jpg Views:	0 Size:	30.9 KB ID:	12709

    3. A mix of 1 and 2 above

    4. Flat Left Wrist Rolling through impact like Rickie Fowler (even when his right arm and wrist are straightening)- whole left 'humerus/forearm' rotation happening immediately post impact at the shoulder joint.

    Click image for larger version  Name:	FowlerHandReleaseAction.jpg Views:	4 Size:	40.0 KB ID:	12713



    5. These similar hand release actions by Stenson, Thomas, DJ and many more doing the following:

    a. Flat Left Wrist through impact for several inches post impact
    b. Clubface square to its curvilinear path for several inches post impact
    c. No independent forearm supination for those several inches post impact
    d. Whole left arm moving (and rotating enough to keep the clubface square to its path) at the same angular velocity as the club for several inches post impact

    Click image for larger version  Name:	StensonDHerTwo.jpg Views:	0 Size:	40.2 KB ID:	12710

    Click image for larger version  Name:	ThomasDHerTwo.jpg Views:	0 Size:	41.3 KB ID:	12711
    Last edited by Schrodinger; 4 weeks ago.

    Comment


    • Forgot to add one more important hand release action.

      This is where the clubface is kept square to its curvilinear path post impact for a long distance in the follow-through like Mike Bennett or Ben Hogan or Charlie Hoffmann.

      This would require quite a bit of flexibility but now you can see there are many ways to release your hands/arms , so you just have to find one that fits you.

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      Comment


      • Hi Gmonkey

        If you are interested, here is a demonstration of the Ryke effect



        Although Kevin Ryan hasn't detailed what causes that 'FORCE' (in the video), I can suspect its the pitching of the lead arm in the late downswing.

        As you can see , the model of the golf swing using a 'double pendulum' is flawed because there is ulnar restriction (ie. the 2nd hinge is basically blocked by your wrist bone structure). You have no choice but to either rotate your forearms and allow your wrists to move in an anatomically safer way.

        But if you have a very strong grip , like Jamie Sadlowski, you will need upper and lower body flexibility to keep rotating through impact without reaching that ulnar deviation restriction. I suspect if you don't have that flexibility and you stall your pivot, your CNS is going to going to try and prevent you from reaching that restriction by chicken winging your lead arm through impact.

        Jamie Sadlowski doesn't use the Ryke effect and there is no need for him to rotate his forearms to square the clubface (because of his very strong grip and his amazing flexibility). Note he has got a 'bent lead arm' through impact and way into his follow-through but that's not due to pivot stalling but possibly utilisation of something called 'parametric acceleration' (another issue altogether and I think he does it intuitively rather than using any physics concepts). But because he swings so fast, maybe he is trying to avoid that ulnar deviation singularity (not 100% sure).

        Click image for larger version  Name:	SadImpact.jpg Views:	1 Size:	10.2 KB ID:	12790

        Hope the above makes sense but the double-pendulum , as a model, has its limitations.
        Last edited by Schrodinger; 4 weeks ago.

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