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Struggling with the axe analogy

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  • Struggling with the axe analogy

    Tried to use the axe analogy last winter but really struggled. I find it difficult to relate the axe to the golf club. What is the cutting edge of the axe in a golf club. In one of his video, I believe Shawn mentioned the edge of the club. But this doesn't feel right to me. I watched this video from Malaska and he mentioned the heel of the club (starting at 9:26) although he's cutting tree behind him! Tried it and got better result. Any experience with the axe analogy out there?




  • #2
    Hi Ferko

    The Axe Analogy -- always a 'goodie' ...

    the concern might be that not every Golf 'Guru's' Axe Analogy is not the same sort of 'chop' or application of the axe into the surface of where you want the force to go.

    Mike Malaska's swing and release is a bit different..

    he's releasing the swing around his elbows..

    more or less in a sort of 'train tracks' sort of alignment..

    it's a great swing - and MM is a brilliant guy, has worked with the best and brings a lot of very important insight into the understanding and teaching of the Golf Swing ..

    but how he arrives at his - what we would describe in 'WIG Speak' as his 'blur' is different than how Shawn does it...

    before I climb even further into the weeds -

    what sort(s) of analogies seem to work or fit best for you?

    and what about the axe drill is attracting you to attempt to learn and master it..

    in short -- what are you looking for in your swing that you feel the axe drill might teach you?

    I'll leave that for you to consider for a bit and we can circle back on this and see about trying to find you a best path into what you're trying to accomplish..

    cheers for now

    k_f

    from the hidden Ravine below 13th at CN G&CC
    tu nunquam hic

    Secret Swing Tech c/o Pigaman @ Crackpot Labs

    wisdomingolf.com/index.php?option=com_ku...&id=47972&Itemid=225

    let energy instead of style define you.

    Proud Member 'Quote Yourself Club'

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    • #3
      For me, the axe analogy is more about feeling and responding to the dynamic weight after you've sent it on its way (and continued to 'assist' subconsciously while also 'getting out of the way') using external focus cues to meet your intent. I do not use the blade of the axe or the 'sword' analogy in my external cue focus because it doesn't seem to fit how I grip the club (ie. neutral grip). Although it might benefit those who have a very strong grip and use the 'baton twirl' hand release action (which I do not incorporate in my own WIG swing).

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      • #4
        Originally posted by kid_fullerene View Post
        and what about the axe drill is attracting you to attempt to learn and master it..

        in short -- what are you looking for in your swing that you feel the axe drill might teach you?
        I struggled with the analogy and I thought I missed something. Shawn published a video recently on this drill. So, it got me thinking. Wonder if it has something to do with the grip as mentioned by Schrodinger (Shawn talks about the strong grip in his video). Nevertheless, at a "conceptual" level, I don't really relate the golf club and the axe as tools e.g. what is the cutting edge on the golf club? What do I throw at the tree when using the golf club? Maybe, I'm overthinking this...

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Ferko View Post
          I struggled with the analogy and I thought I missed something. Shawn published a video recently on this drill. So, it got me thinking. Wonder if it has something to do with the grip as mentioned by Schrodinger (Shawn talks about the strong grip in his video). Nevertheless, at a "conceptual" level, I don't really relate the golf club and the axe as tools e.g. what is the cutting edge on the golf club? What do I throw at the tree when using the golf club? Maybe, I'm overthinking this...
          Hi Ferko,

          Shawn says the leading edge of the club is his axe . . . see his explanation and use of the axe analogy in this video starting at the 5:00 mark . . .



          As Schrodinger suggested, I also think the strong grip is part of how the axe analogy works. With the orientation of the head position, tilt, and action through (not at) the "tree" in this particular analogy, a strong grip is necessary.

          Also, as far as the axe analogy in general, beyond the task and external focus idea, I agree with Schrodinger in that "
          the axe analogy is more about feeling and responding to the dynamic weight" in the swing.

          That said, it might simply be that the axe analogy just doesn't resonate well for you, and there's nothing wrong with that if this is the case. Not all analogies will work well for all people.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Ferko View Post

            I struggled with the analogy and I thought I missed something. Shawn published a video recently on this drill. So, it got me thinking. Wonder if it has something to do with the grip as mentioned by Schrodinger (Shawn talks about the strong grip in his video). Nevertheless, at a "conceptual" level, I don't really relate the golf club and the axe as tools e.g. what is the cutting edge on the golf club? What do I throw at the tree when using the golf club? Maybe, I'm overthinking this...
            Hi Ferko

            thanks for taking a moment to consider my questions..

            I tried to grab a couple of your ideas contained in the response that resonate(d) with me ..

            I'm intrigued.. and it's likely that I'm chasing a 'swing phantom' here ..

            but I would speculate that your analogies and picture of your action is centered around a throw or throwing action of some sort.

            maybe it's just the 'dog whistle' of seeing the word 'throw' in relation to the 'tree' .. but let's just assume for the moment that you're not so much to brace and use your body to send a tool into motion to provide an action such as an axe or some such thing..

            but rather instead.. you're working in some fashion to provide a sequence that supports some sort of throwing action ..

            there's not so much a 'right or wrong' to this ..but rather (at least in my very muddled and distinctly 'crackpotish' mind) getting a 'hack' or some sort of sense of not so much of 'what one is missing' but a sense of how one is already thinking about sending an action someplace.

            I'll run this out just a trifle further and then return back to my central 'point' (if indeed I ever truly have one) but at the risk of predisposed confirmation bias - people so often will pick up new skills in relation to how they already understand existing skills..

            back to 'throw' ..

            if and when you get a chance and feel like it .. please feel free to share what analogy(ies) in and around WIG (and perhaps throwing analogies in WIG) lit your understanding up originally and how that might have worked for you..

            I'll leave it at that for the moment..

            and of course, Cally is quite right about the WIG axe analogy particulars -

            but if you exist in a place mentally that really doesn't work with those tools in that way .. then it's not so much what you're missing ..but what you might be bringing into your thinking that might well muddy your existing mental waters..

            as I recall .. last I saw it .. your swing looked pretty good..

            cheers for now

            k_f

            from the hidden Ravine below 13th at CN G&CC
            tu nunquam hic

            Secret Swing Tech c/o Pigaman @ Crackpot Labs

            wisdomingolf.com/index.php?option=com_ku...&id=47972&Itemid=225

            let energy instead of style define you.

            Proud Member 'Quote Yourself Club'

            Comment


            • #7
              Kid, always struggled with analogies. Throwing the club provides the best (irregular) results (but improved since I work the ball).

              I tried the "Malaska move" at the range on Friday i.e. handle in, clubhead out (heel not toe). Hit a few good shots but I wouldn't say it was better than usual and I was regularly casting the club trying to swing the heel out. Tried again on Saturday but tried to cut a log behind me as Malaska explains in his video. Wow! No casting. Good squat. Felt like my arms / club unit went through without any unhinging of the wrists. Really felt the pressure on the right index finger (RH player). Very consistent and precise in terms of distance and direction. Completely new feeling.

              Strangely, I don't feel I'm swinging the club head anymore but the club instead (hope I make sense here). This seems to be the big shift for me. Makes it easy to perform the backswing too.

              Don't know if that's right (many ways of swinging a golf club) but I'll give it a try with driver and woods next week-end and, if it works, bring that to the golf course.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Ferko View Post
                Kid, always struggled with analogies. Throwing the club provides the best (irregular) results (but improved since I work the ball).

                I tried the "Malaska move" at the range on Friday i.e. handle in, clubhead out (heel not toe). Hit a few good shots but I wouldn't say it was better than usual and I was regularly casting the club trying to swing the heel out. Tried again on Saturday but tried to cut a log behind me as Malaska explains in his video. Wow! No casting. Good squat. Felt like my arms / club unit went through without any unhinging of the wrists. Really felt the pressure on the right index finger (RH player). Very consistent and precise in terms of distance and direction. Completely new feeling.

                Strangely, I don't feel I'm swinging the club head anymore but the club instead (hope I make sense here). This seems to be the big shift for me. Makes it easy to perform the backswing too.

                Don't know if that's right (many ways of swinging a golf club) but I'll give it a try with driver and woods next week-end and, if it works, bring that to the golf course.
                Hi Ferko

                glad that you're finding something with the Malaska Move - I am a big fan of his thinking and teaching .. and his ideas are certainly worth a look. His alignment is different than Shawn's ..think about how Shawn and in WIG ..things fall down.. vs. in Malaska..things work a bit more 'around' ..

                whatever gets it done!! Mr. Malaska has had to rebuild his swing after years of struggle and went back to some of his teacher's (Joe Nichols) original lessons ..which you see as the 'Malaska Move'..

                Mike also has brought forward a notion and illustrations of 'off-setting forces' which definitely advanced my understanding of different ways a golf swing could work.

                You have a good golf swing.. I believe that you find some things that give you precision and confidence - your game will continue to advance.

                All the Best!

                k_f
                from the hidden Ravine below 13th at CN G&CC
                tu nunquam hic

                Secret Swing Tech c/o Pigaman @ Crackpot Labs

                wisdomingolf.com/index.php?option=com_ku...&id=47972&Itemid=225

                let energy instead of style define you.

                Proud Member 'Quote Yourself Club'

                Comment


                • #9
                  I took some lessons and was told to apply this "axe analogy" method - I use my body to power the swing, came out good together; powerful shots with a draw that's all.

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