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  • #76
    Hi WIG Friends..

    abstract thought..

    maybe a couple of questions to outline it..

    1. how do you conceive of the clubhead ending up moving faster through the ball ?

    2. what does 'swing plane' mean, if anything?

    3. in WIG there is a 'fall' .. what is dropping?

    4. is that the only way something could 'drop'?

    how does or could any of that relate to the notion of 'wrist hinge'?

    some places to look for some 'swing magic' ..

    cheers for now

    k_f
    from the hidden Ravine below 13th at CN G&CC
    tu nunquam hic

    Secret Swing Tech c/o Pigaman @ Crackpot Labs

    wisdomingolf.com/index.php?option=com_ku...&id=47972&Itemid=225

    let energy instead of style define you.

    Proud Member 'Quote Yourself Club'

    Comment


    • #77
      Hi WIG Friends..

      saw this article today -

      thought it might get us all thinking about the 'you are your golf swing' in a more complete way.

      Golf.com 'headline - why mobility is holding your golf swing back'

      https://www.golf.com/fitness/2020/03...ur-golf-swing/

      we probably sit a lot more than we realize - and it's crucial to keep moving!

      cheers for now

      k_f
      from the hidden Ravine below 13th at CN G&CC
      tu nunquam hic

      Secret Swing Tech c/o Pigaman @ Crackpot Labs

      wisdomingolf.com/index.php?option=com_ku...&id=47972&Itemid=225

      let energy instead of style define you.

      Proud Member 'Quote Yourself Club'

      Comment


      • #78
        Hi guys,

        I have not been following Shawn's teachings in a good while, and consequently I have not been on this Forum for a while, but in light of this virus pandemic I wanted to wish everyone the best and to stay safe out there!

        I just read a couple articles where so-called "experts" are suggesting that it's okay to continue to play golf during this pandemic if certain precautions are taken. But I suppose that everyone has to decide for themselves what is best to do. Even though I'm not in the senior citizen or elderly category that seems to be most at risk right now, I for one will not be golfing for the foreseeable future. Golf is just not that important to me, and I don't want to put myself or others at risk, especially when they say people can carry this virus and show no symptoms for a while. So to the extent possible, I'm adhering to the "stay at home" encouragement and advice that I'm hearing more and more as of late.

        Anyway, I mainly wanted to wish everyone the best as we all navigate through these challenging times. Take care, and stay safe!!!

        Comment


        • #79
          Hi Cally!
          Great to hear from you!

          I clearly hear you about playing golf in this trying climate?
          However, you CAN participate in golf REMOTELY by continuing to participate in THIS Forum?
          Your insight is extremely valuable and your absence has been noticed and intently felt.
          If we continue to view this Forum as our normal Saturday foursome and effort to keep this little corner of Crackpot National vibrant, we can keep our heads in the game and our bodies out of health-crisis.

          Welcome back, Cally!
          Hope all is well with you.
          Please don't view this as your "swan-song"?

          Love this place and you guys

          dude abid
          "OLD" Forum Participation

          Entry Date: 18-JAN-2011
          Posts: 1813
          Thank You: 1048

          "Be water, my friends"

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by COSTA103 View Post
            Hi Cally!
            Great to hear from you!

            I clearly hear you about playing golf in this trying climate?
            However, you CAN participate in golf REMOTELY by continuing to participate in THIS Forum?
            Your insight is extremely valuable and your absence has been noticed and intently felt.
            If we continue to view this Forum as our normal Saturday foursome and effort to keep this little corner of Crackpot National vibrant, we can keep our heads in the game and our bodies out of health-crisis.

            Welcome back, Cally!
            Hope all is well with you.
            Please don't view this as your "swan-song"?

            Love this place and you guys

            dude abid
            Hi Dude! Nice to hear from you, and I hope all is well with you too!

            Regarding this Forum, and not being on here lately, I gradually moved away from Shawn's stuff in the last couple years, and around last summer/fall I stopped watching Shawn's videos altogether. While I did learn much from Shawn's teachings over the years, I felt that I had reached a plateau that I remained on for far too long, and I wanted to expand my horizons to see what else might work better for me. As a result of exploring other approaches, I have revamped my swing in just about every way, and in my humble opinion it's working much better for me. For example, instead of Shawn's "Lag like a Battering Ram" teaching, I now "feel" that I'm initiating the release right out of the transition, and this is so much better for me than what I had been doing or trying to do with the "Lag like a Battering Ram" approach. Anyway, when it comes to the golf swing I suppose we each need to find our own way, and discover what works best for us individually.

            That said, love you too Dude! And please take care, and stay safe out there with this crazy pandemic that we are all in the midst of!

            Comment


            • #81
              Far be it for me to put words in someone's mouth, but I think if people will look past the "it's Shawn's method or nothing mentality" these days, you may find that Shawn's methodology has been evolving as well. As always feel free to cherry pick from who ever fills your needs at the present time. ;>)

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Ken Robie View Post
                Far be it for me to put words in someone's mouth, but I think if people will look past the "it's Shawn's method or nothing mentality" these days, you may find that Shawn's methodology has been evolving as well. As always feel free to cherry pick from who ever fills your needs at the present time. ;>)
                Hi Ken,

                I can't speak to Shawn's videos within the last year, but I have known Shawn's videos pretty much chapter and verse going back to 2007. Has Shawn changed his teaching on lag, and when and how to release the club?

                Here's an old example going back to 2008 where Shawn (at about the 2:00 mark) shows how the "lag" should be maintained until the hands are well past the golf ball . . .



                This is the same idea he was teaching in 2012 with his "Lag like a Battering Ram" concept . . .



                And there are more recent videos that come to mind where Shawn promoted the same deep release, lag concept. Now whether I misunderstood these ideas or was not able to apply them properly is debatable, but I know that for me this concept was a bane in my golf swing.

                Compare to this concept of initiating the release club more from the top of the swing or in the transition area . . .



                For me, and I'm not saying for everyone, the idea of initiating the release right out of the transition works much better. Now I'm sure this has much to do with what one "feels" they are doing as well. Perhaps Shawn for example is actually releasing the club sooner than what it would appear in his videos I posted above. I don't know. I just know that the idea of maintaining lag until the hands are well past the golf ball did not work very well for me, and I was doing it this way for a long time.

                This is also why I struggled with Shawn's 2016 video regarding the "Fall Up" concept for example, that in my mind was an extension of his previous "Lag like a Battering Ram" teaching. See below (at about the 2:18 mark where he shows how the hands/handle of the club "fall up" well past the golf ball coming into impact) . . .



                Again, whether I misunderstood this concept or simply wasn't able to apply it, who knows.

                Also, just one brief comment on "cherry picking" since you mentioned it . . . I think one has to be careful with this because one method of swinging a golf club may not be (and often times isn't) compatible with another method of swinging a golf club, and as I see it these different examples (lag and deep or late release versus initiate the release from the top of the swing) that I posted here are wholly incompatible and contrary to one another, i.e., there is no mixing and matching here, it is either one or the other.

                At any rate, like I said in my prior post, when it comes to the golf swing I suppose we each need to find our own way, and discover what works best for us individually.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by Cally View Post

                  Hi Ken,

                  I can't speak to Shawn's videos within the last year, but I have known Shawn's videos pretty much chapter and verse going back to 2007. Has Shawn changed his teaching on lag, and when and how to release the club?

                  Here's an old example going back to 2008 where Shawn (at about the 2:00 mark) shows how the "lag" should be maintained until the hands are well past the golf ball . . .



                  This is the same idea he was teaching in 2012 with his "Lag like a Battering Ram" concept . . .



                  And there are more recent videos that come to mind where Shawn promoted the same deep release, lag concept. Now whether I misunderstood these ideas or was not able to apply them properly is debatable, but I know that for me this concept was a bane in my golf swing.

                  Compare to this concept of initiating the release club more from the top of the swing or in the transition area . . .



                  For me, and I'm not saying for everyone, the idea of initiating the release right out of the transition works much better. Now I'm sure this has much to do with what one "feels" they are doing as well. Perhaps Shawn for example is actually releasing the club sooner than what it would appear in his videos I posted above. I don't know. I just know that the idea of maintaining lag until the hands are well past the golf ball did not work very well for me, and I was doing it this way for a long time.

                  This is also why I struggled with Shawn's 2016 video regarding the "Fall Up" concept for example, that in my mind was an extension of his previous "Lag like a Battering Ram" teaching. See below (at about the 2:18 mark where he shows how the hands/handle of the club "fall up" well past the golf ball coming into impact) . . .



                  Again, whether I misunderstood this concept or simply wasn't able to apply it, who knows.

                  Also, just one brief comment on "cherry picking" since you mentioned it . . . I think one has to be careful with this because one method of swinging a golf club may not be (and often times isn't) compatible with another method of swinging a golf club, and as I see it these different examples (lag and deep or late release versus initiate the release from the top of the swing) that I posted here are wholly incompatible and contrary to one another, i.e., there is no mixing and matching here, it is either one or the other.

                  At any rate, like I said in my prior post, when it comes to the golf swing I suppose we each need to find our own way, and discover what works best for us individually.
                  Hi Cally

                  wanted to jump in earlier and thank you for your prior good wishes during this very uncertain time.. So far no one I know has been immediately impacted by this new illness, but it's all around me and as I see my state walk closer and closer to some kind of total lockdown - this is unlike anything I've ever seen, and it's still early yet..

                  the short of it is that your prior post and this one is such a reminder of everything that I found so good about the forum - perhaps it is something that we can all see and enjoy again ..

                  I also wanted to wish you the best with your latest swing journey - I've tried in the past to share pieces of what I think I now understand about how various swing methods can and do exist.. and that it isn't just 'repackaging' ... there are real differences in the sequences .. and piece parts that are critical to say a 'Ben Hogan' swing may not necessarily help you or me in our swings, no matter how hard we work to try and incorporate them.

                  With the Austin stuff - he's beyond my ability to really understand - let alone try to duplicate in a useful way .. I did find some interesting stuff from Michael Broderick, who is working in parallel and for what it's worth, has apparently cracked for me - Sam Snead's swing sequence .. his release concepts and visualizations might be of some use to you, and I suspect you're likely already aware of them anyway.

                  I have a few guesses as to why you're having more success with your current sequence vs. what you were doing previously - in that you are using your swing to time the turn of your body vs. using the turn of your body to time the fall (and subsequent 'lag') of your arms.

                  either works - but the 'works how' is where all the 'discussion' can come from - in that it becomes all about one's frame of reference to have some kind of description or understanding..

                  hope you and yours are well and safe at this time ..

                  and you can get a few swings in .. fairways and greens to you Sir..

                  hope to see you at Crackpot National again soon

                  cheers for now

                  k_f
                  from the hidden Ravine below 13th at CN G&CC
                  tu nunquam hic

                  Secret Swing Tech c/o Pigaman @ Crackpot Labs

                  wisdomingolf.com/index.php?option=com_ku...&id=47972&Itemid=225

                  let energy instead of style define you.

                  Proud Member 'Quote Yourself Club'

                  Comment


                  • Cally
                    Cally commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Thanks Kid! And thanks again for your help near the end of last year in our offline discussions about these different concepts I posted about here, and helping me sort through them.

                    BTW, I hope you didn't mind me using your thread for my recent posts, I figured your thread was kind of an all inclusive one for miscellaneous golf stuff.

                • #84
                  Cally, everything you are saying is very true. But sometimes if listen outside of Shawn's scripted box you will hear and see him do subtle little differences from his hard line "teaching" delivery. And I think IMHO that his teaching and even his own understanding of how the golf swing works for him has been evolving. As with everything in life how the individual interprets the message is always a little variant from the next person's. And there is never anything wrong with the interpretation if works. And the cherry picking was just take whatever you need to build your own comfort in swing. It does not have to be the whole enchalada. Just crumb here and there can pay big dividends in one's own game. So tinker till it works for you. ;>)

                  Comment


                  • Cally
                    Cally commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I hear you, and I agree Ken!

                    Not that I really want to open another can of worms, but I guess I will since you mentioned how the individual interprets the message, and how it always varies from the next person's, I personally think Shawn's talk about the use gravity in the golf swing can vary not just a little, but vary drastically from one person to the next.

                    In my mind, when it comes to gravity in the golf swing, the idea Shawn is advocating is to work in harmony with gravity, but I think some people interpret it to mean that gravity does everything for you. And from some of the posts I've seen on this Forum from people new to Shawn's teachings, they wonder and are perplexed by how Shawn can drive a golf ball over 300 yards by letting gravity only do it for you. My belief is it's not just gravity, but rather Shawn has a very emphatic release, albeit his release seems to happen later in the swing as I highlighted above, but nonetheless, I believe Shawn's release is not just gravity alone, but him actively doing something to assist gravity, and actually assist it in a big way!

                    Anyway, this again is just my opinion, and my interpretation, which as you rightly said varies from one person to the next. But I mention the gravity issue because I think it's one idea in Shawn's "teachings" that can be easily misinterpreted.

                • #85
                  Cally, I agree with you 100% Shawn's swing is his own flavor. Now contrast his prize pupil who has absorbed his teachings her whole life and notice how much different the two swings really look. They both are feeling and believing it's the right interpretation for them. Nothing wrong with either swing. Same tools being used with a different flare.

                  Comment


                  • #86
                    Hi guys,

                    I have been an advocate of our Chairman’s philosophy since I first “met” him (online) nine years ago…
                    Many of you may have noticed my presence on this very Forum these many years?
                    As you might expect, I am an enthusiastic supporter of his Brand.
                    I have since been able to take MY “interpretation” of his concepts and turn it into a successful teaching enterprise.
                    Please indulge me in two points?

                    MY “interpretation” of Shawn’s message is for EACH of us to take what we will and integrate it into our OWN process.

                    There are innumerable examples of thoughts that I have evaluated and discarded.

                    For ME, it is “ball-on-a-string”, “kid-on-a-swing” and “get-out-of-the-way”.

                    I have never heard Shawn suggest that you should SWING like HE does?
                    The very fact that we observe that Savannah’s “interpretation” of the concept appears to be “different” (visually) than her dad’s should bear that out?

                    For the record, I do not believe that my SWING is much (if any) different now than it was when I was first introduced to WIG?
                    What IS very different is the way I THINK?

                    As Bruce Lee has said:…
                    “…absorb what is useful, discard what is useless and add what is specifically your own”

                    Love this place and you guys
                    dude abides
                    Last edited by COSTA103; 1 week ago.
                    "OLD" Forum Participation

                    Entry Date: 18-JAN-2011
                    Posts: 1813
                    Thank You: 1048

                    "Be water, my friends"

                    Comment


                    • Cally
                      Cally commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Great points Dude!

                      Just out of curiosity, what are some of the ideas that you have "evaluated and discarded?"

                  • #87
                    Hi guys, hey, Cally.....

                    Perhaps my use of the term "discarded" is a bit strong...
                    Generally we consider those things to be "discarded" to be of NO VALUE?
                    Thus is NOT the case with the concepts to which I reference?
                    Rather they are ideas to which I granted consideration and, upon examination, decided that they did not fit......me.

                    It's like you're in the market to buy a new shirt... Nice to have a shirt-store at your disposal and even better if that store provides OPTIONS?
                    Sometimes the shirt looks great on the rack, but not so great when you try it on?

                    I hesitate to enumerate any, but they do all seem to have one thing in common?
                    Generally they are those which call your attention to what is going down around the ball: HITTING something?

                    Your reference to the "battering-ram" is a good example. Also, heavy sledge-hammer, door-frames; garage-doors and to a lesser extent dandelion-stems...

                    Seems to boil down to the difference between HITTERS and SWINGERS (no...not THAT kind of "swinger"? )

                    I am clearly a SWINGER. I try desperately NOT to think of "hitting" anything? Especially the BALL?
                    Remember me? I'm the one that doesn't even LOOK at the ball??

                    Any of our Chairman's analogies need to match up with that to which the player CHOOSES to pay ATTENTION.
                    My attention is clearly focused on my Target, and anything down in front of me is nothing more than a reference point indicating the planetary location of my next golf SWING.
                    So, perpetual-motion-drill, club-head motion-blur, rhythmic-gymnastic-ribbons, etc. all resonate with me?

                    I swing to my target. Any collision with anything down around my feet on that journey is nothing other than a function of where I've chosen to stand.

                    All this is NOT to suggest that those "hitting" ideas will not resonate with others?
                    I'm not suggesting that there is no value added?
                    Quite the contrary. I believe I've experienced MORE collective brilliance from my WIG exposure than all the other instruction styles/methods I've encountered combined.

                    Love this place and you guys

                    dude abides
                    Last edited by COSTA103; 1 week ago.
                    "OLD" Forum Participation

                    Entry Date: 18-JAN-2011
                    Posts: 1813
                    Thank You: 1048

                    "Be water, my friends"

                    Comment


                    • Cally
                      Cally commented
                      Editing a comment
                      This makes perfect sense Dude! When I first read your earlier statement about "innumerable examples of thoughts" that you "evaluated and discarded," I thought to myself yikes, that doesn't exactly sound like a ringing endorsement of Shawn's concepts. But now that you clarified what you meant in that you decided that some ideas did not "fit" you, I understand what you're saying. This is the same as my reference to the "battering-ram" idea . . . I came to realize that it was not a good "fit" for me for whatever reason.

                      Edit:

                      BTW, I noticed your Bruce Lee reference/quote, and it was a very good and relevant one to insert into this conversation!
                      Last edited by Cally; 1 week ago.

                  • #88
                    Originally posted by Cally View Post
                    Hi guys,

                    I have not been following Shawn's teachings in a good while, and consequently I have not been on this Forum for a while, but in light of this virus pandemic I wanted to wish everyone the best and to stay safe out there!

                    I just read a couple articles where so-called "experts" are suggesting that it's okay to continue to play golf during this pandemic if certain precautions are taken. But I suppose that everyone has to decide for themselves what is best to do. Even though I'm not in the senior citizen or elderly category that seems to be most at risk right now, I for one will not be golfing for the foreseeable future. Golf is just not that important to me, and I don't want to put myself or others at risk, especially when they say people can carry this virus and show no symptoms for a while. So to the extent possible, I'm adhering to the "stay at home" encouragement and advice that I'm hearing more and more as of late.

                    Anyway, I mainly wanted to wish everyone the best as we all navigate through these challenging times. Take care, and stay safe!!!
                    Be safe everyone, I'm sure we will all survive these trying times. Just do anything with the utmost precautions.

                    Comment

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