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  • Thoughts on Centrifugal Pump

    Hey all,
    I don't post very often here but I'm in the middle of one of my golf improvement obsessive periods again. I have so many hobby/diversions that I tend to focus more on one than another in cycles. Also have the paralysis by analysis mentality of the MBA/engineer mindset which I believe is counter productive to good golf. My son laughs at me when I ask him what he feels like in his golf swing. He has not thoughts or feelings at all, he just does it. He is 6'5" 185 lbs and is a very good basketball player/athlete in general and can hit a golf ball like you would not believe. I also started him at 4 years old.

    I believe I discovered something the other day I was totally missing which is the feel of throwing the club to the target or along your intended path for the shot you are considering, (draw/fade) in conjunction with the centrifugal pump. I never really felt a proper "pump" and how the timing of it adds power and helps keep the swing in balance. Now that I feel it I also find it much easier to let the arms fall with gravity which being a big "hit" impulse guy is a home run for me.

    I hope this is something I can expand on as I just started feeling it and working on it. I started doing the PMD with two 5 lb weights to loosen up and just work on "outta the way" in both directions and since I was also working on throwing the club to the target I started thinking, throw the weights to the target. I discovered that with the weights you really can't throw them to a target with your arms but that you automatically let them fall along with your arms and depending on how far you want to throw them, you use your legs in a pumping motion to add control distance. All of a sudden I said to myself, "Wait a minute, is this what I should be feeling in my golf swing?" I started thinking about throwing horse shoes. You definitely swing your arm with a "let it fall" type motion and control distance and height with the pump of your legs to add power/height/distance to the swinging arm. I had never felt this in a golf swing. I never felt the pumping action as an aid to add power/control to the timing of my golf swing. I started thinking of the club as the weights and letting it fall with the timing of the pump and assisting the throw of the club with the pump like I did with the weights and like you would with throwing a horseshoes to the post. Less pump for a short distance and more pump to throw it further. I eventually got to full swings and could feel a lot of power when the timing was spot on. I knew I was getting some pretty good speed when the rubber tee of my mat was severed and shot out at the wall like a bullet.

    Took the feeling to the chipping range and could really feel the fall of the arms and the assist of the throwing of the club with the pump. My consistency of spot on contact went way up and hitting forty yard shots with a lob wedge felt like I was just tossing the ball with no effort. Can't wait to take this to longer clubs and see if I am finally on to something. I have seen all the videos on tossing the kettleball, centrifigal pump, etc., but it never really clicked and I have never really incorporated the feeling of throwing it with the legs or assisting the throw/swing with the legs.

    Is this something that I am way behind the eight ball on and all of you have this in your swing already? Don't see too much discussion here related to it. Would appreciate your imput. I may be totally off on this but so far it feels pretty good and I'm pretty excited to take it further.

  • #2
    Hi foxhollow1,

    It really sounds to me that you're on to something here! I remember when I discovered this for the first time too . . . I just noticed it happening on its own . . . it wasn't something I was trying to do. So I'd say just keep doing what you're doing by allowing it to happen naturally without thinking about it.

    That said, the centrifugal pump has been brought up a few times on the new forum, and Gary has a Blog related to it . . .

    http://wisdomingolf.vbulletin.net/bl...trifugal-force

    Also, there were a number of threads and a lot of discussion about the centrifugal pump on the old forum. Here's just one example of the posts that the Chairman did on the old forum where he gave his thoughts on how the centrifugal pump should work in the swing . . .

    http://forum.wisdomingolf.com/index....emid=225#24218

    Anyway, keep at it . . . you're on the right track!

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks Cally,

      Looking at Shawn's post saying not to focus on the extending of the legs, the squat, and then the extension again but focus on the weight of the ACU made no sense to me because I could not feel the weight of the ACU so I did not feel how the centrifugal pump helps with the momentum and speed of the swing. It was not until I really felt the weight of the two five pound weights being tossed that I activated the centrifugal pump. Now that feeling is helping me to feel the weight of the ACU and it is allowing the legs to pump. I hope this might help someone else, that is what we are her for.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by foxhollow1 View Post
        Looking at Shawn's post saying not to focus on the extending of the legs, the squat, and then the extension again but focus on the weight of the ACU made no sense to me because I could not feel the weight of the ACU so I did not feel how the centrifugal pump helps with the momentum and speed of the swing. It was not until I really felt the weight of the two five pound weights being tossed that I activated the centrifugal pump. Now that feeling is helping me to feel the weight of the ACU and it is allowing the legs to pump. I hope this might help someone else, that is what we are her for.
        Here's a video Shawn did on feeling the dynamic weight of the ACU . . . this may help you transition the feel of the weights and better integrate this feeling into your swing with a club . . .

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks again Cally,
          It seems like when I start to understand the concept of the gravity based swing and feeling the weight vs. manipulation, one answer to a question opens up another. To feel the weight with longer clubs you have to be swing the club because the club/weight/momentum is swinging more away from you and you will feel the pull on the shoulders more than the shorter clubs. In my paralysis by analysis mind, how do I "let it fall" with gravity if you have to swing the club out to the place where gravity and momentum will naturally let it pass. It seems like there has to be a manipulation with the longer clubs to get started on the proper path with the downswing. I will keep working on this as this as I am committed to this swing 100%.

          Comment


          • #6
            Too much analysis going on there for certain. I don't get the manipulation is needed for longer clubs part. If you set up to match your intent, then the ball is further away from your feet with the longer shaft, correct? As long as you don't make any manipulations that alter your path gravity will track the club head for you. There may be a different rhythm to the swing with longer clubs, I don't know, rhythm is something I don't think about, I can only feel it. One thing for certain though, once your set up matches your intent, gravity will track that club head path for you if you let it, without any manipulation.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by foxhollow1 View Post
              It seems like when I start to understand the concept of the gravity based swing and feeling the weight vs. manipulation, one answer to a question opens up another. To feel the weight with longer clubs you have to be swing the club because the club/weight/momentum is swinging more away from you and you will feel the pull on the shoulders more than the shorter clubs. In my paralysis by analysis mind, how do I "let it fall" with gravity if you have to swing the club out to the place where gravity and momentum will naturally let it pass. It seems like there has to be a manipulation with the longer clubs to get started on the proper path with the downswing. I will keep working on this as this as I am committed to this swing 100%.
              Hi Fox,

              One key here is to feel like you're already in motion at address, as if you're in your PMD. The forward press may help you with this feeling. Also, allow yourself to feel a nice "Wait for the Weight" PAUSE in the transition to get the "let it fall" with gravity feel. And remember, the longer the club (e.g., like a driver) the longer the wait. In case you haven't seen this unlisted video that I just referred to here it is . . .



              BTW, you can really see in the "Wait for the Weight" video the "up; down; up" of centrifugal pump action and how this coordinates with the "wait" in the swing, and you can especially see this when Shawn demonstrates with the lasso.

              And here's another way to think of this . . . Shawn talks about the feel of where you need to be in the backswing to allow you to use the weight of the hammer to do all of the work . . . lots of great little nuggets in this old thread; and make sure you review the videos that Shawn posted in this thread, especially the one entitled "Feel the Swing Plane" for the feel of the hammer doing all the work for wedge through driver . . . and also the "Swing Plane Update" video where Shawn talks about allowing the arms to pre-deploy at address for longer clubs like the driver; and in this video he also talks about the importance of feeling like you're already in motion at address (as you feel with the PMD) . . . like Shawn said in his post regarding the address position, it (the address position) " . . . should never be considered a STATIC POSITION but a moment in time during the swing where you are already in the process of getting out of the way of the ACU that is already in the follow through and coming back into the backswing."

              http://forum.wisdomingolf.com/index....1&limitstart=0

              Hope this helps!

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks everyone, I'm working on it and making progress. I think the "feel the weight" sensation is the most important aspect of the swing and maybe the hardest thing to do consistently. It is so easy for the brain to see a distance to the green or to a target as "far" and that you will really have to step up the effort for the shot. When this happens the easy back swing with the natural pause while it is transitioning from back/up to down is almost impossible. What I need is an attitude of making the same fluid swing with an indifference to the result. Typically the result will be good. If I try to swing harder everything goes bad. When I let it fall, with the centrifugal pump with my butt to the mirror, and throw the club through the ball toward the target with a low end over end trajectory the results are really good. Just have to get all the above ingrained so it just happens and focus on target. Best to all.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I thought I'd resurrect this old thread because of something important I have missed regarding the concept of the 'Centrifugal Pump'.

                  I have mistakenly taken Shawn's analogies of 'getting the ground' as meaning transferring weight pressure from top of backswing 'PROGRESSIVELY' onto the lead foot in the forwards swing 'THROUGH IMPACT' (wrong for my body).

                  Looking at his videos where he says plant that lead leg/foot to help get our hips out of the way,does not necessarily mean transfer an increased amount of weight pressure 'THROUGH IMPACT' when doing the centrifugal pump action. The 'PUSH UP' action of the lead leg should (for my body) 'start finishing' at impact , which means the weight pressure is moving temporarily from the left foot to the right foot before it starts moving back over the left foot in the mid follow-through to finish.

                  This is all made clear in his old video below and look specifically at 2:30 - 2:48



                  So the the squat happens in transition, but the push up of lead leg happens early enough to shift weight pressure back onto the rear leg just at impact. So weight pressure is actually 'moving dynamically' from left to right leg through impact for a split second.

                  So my concept of weight pressure transfer as I do the centrifugal pump is wrong and this could affect my sequencing and timing , especially if I 'mistakenly' thought it was wrong to sense more weight pressure on the right leg at impact.

                  In Shawns video above, his weight pressure was more centred at impact but his weight pressure was still 'MOVING' from left to right foot during impact. Other golfers might still have more weight pressure on their lead leg at impact but it would be 'lessening' through impact. Another group of golfers like me prefer to have more weight on their right foot at impact because it positions them better to swing the club easier in a rotary manner. There could obviously be another set of golfers who prefer to progressively move weight pressure from the rear foot to lead foot through impact. No styles are wrong but you've got to listen to your own body.

                  PS. The above seems to apply for driver swings, but unsure about irons (see this video below). The video sort of shows a lot of famous 'Reverse Foot' type golfers when they use their driver.



                  PS. On reflection , one cannot assume that all the golfers in the video above are 'Reverse Foot' types unless you can analyse the COP pattern for each. It could also be that some are 'Front Foot' types where the 'shearing force' is so great that they have to allow the lead foot to spin out.

                  Adam Young has written an article about 'Weight and Pressure' and it's quite counter intuitive because they could actually be opposing each other (weird stuff).

                  https://www.adamyounggolf.com/golf-and-cop-what-is-it/

                  Wonder why Shawn was saying 'Centre of Gravity ' in his video instead of 'Centre of Weight Pressure' ? I thought the COG is relatively stable in the golf swing.
                  Last edited by Schrodinger; 04-27-2017, 09:26 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I am a bit confused, I thought we must transfer the weight at the top of the swing.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks everyone, I'm working on it and making progress. I think the "feel the weight" sensation is the most important aspect of the swing and maybe the hardest thing to do consistently. It is so easy for the brain to see a distance to the green or to a target as "far" and that you will really have to step up the effort for the shot. When this happens the easy back swing with the natural pause while it is transitioning from back/up to down is almost impossible. What I need is an attitude of making the same fluid swing with an indifference to the result. Typically the result will be good. If I try to swing harder everything goes bad. When I let it fall, with the centrifugal pump with my butt to the mirror, and throw the club through the ball toward the target with a low end over end trajectory the results are really good. Just have to get all the above ingrained so it just happens and focus on target. Best to all.
                      http://maybomnuocntp.com/may-bom-chim-gieng-khoan/
                      Nhà phân phối máy bơm nước giếng khoan Franklin, Ebara, Coverco, Pentax, Sumoto lớn nhất miền Bắc ✅ Chính hãng ✅Chất lượng ✅ Giá tốt ✅ BH 12 tháng Có CO CQ

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        What is centrifugal pump? Is that a Shawn term? Any link to Shawns definition?

                        I need to know what this means in order to comment.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Here is a link to Shawn’s videos about the Centrifugal Pump.

                          https://wisdomingolf.vbulletin.net/b...trifugal-force

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Yeah ok I see what it means. Its just the physical action of introducing more energy into the swing. Id put it into the reaction category. Learn the swing first. This will come naturally.

                            I could see a lot of people confusing this with an early extention move if missunderstood. Caution.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Just watched the British Masters and best example of the 'centrifugal pump' is Rory.

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