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Irons, irons, irons! I’m about to quit.

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  • Irons, irons, irons! I’m about to quit.

    Guys I’ve been here on the forum for a few years now and have learned a lot, but I have a confession to make. I’ve had several sets of irons and now matter what I just stink at hitting them on the golf course. My driver and woods are fine and so are my hybrids but when it’s time for an iron shot it’s a train wreck, fat, thin, over the top anything and everything you can name in the book. I love my new Muzino irons (MP h4 3-PW) a friend practically gave them to me when my others had some problems, anyway I must admit that I even tried the conventional swing taught and had the same results, a good shot every now and then. I played today and barely broke 100, driver was awesome but irons killed me. I really like WIG but I’m at the point I don’t know what to do. Thanks in advance. Take care.
    Last edited by Gregman55; 05-06-2018, 08:52 PM.

  • #2
    I had the same for many years.
    My swingspeed is really high, approx 110 mph.
    It is so frustrating to split the fairway with the driver and the ball lays perfect on the fairway after 280 yards and then you produce a shank with the SW.

    Several reasons I found out for me.

    1. Too much iron practice on mats. It is a difference on real grass.
    2. Playing blades in combination with heavy shafts. Actually my gamer is Titleist AP2 forged with a 85g Recoil shaft.
    3. Iron swing and driver swing needs different set up and execution.
    4. Ball on grass triggers much more likely my strong ball focus compared to a ball above the ground with a tee.
    5. The shallow form of a wood head associates for me sweeping over the ground, the iron shape tend to give me the feeling, it cannot glide over the ground.

    Everybody will tell you, irons are easier than woods, but for me it was always vice versa.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi guys,
      Hey, Greg....

      Now where did I put that well-worn drum of mine? I know it's around here somewhere....
      Ahhhh....THERE it is....

      We ALL get into a swing-funk every now and then...I have always found it helpful to go back to basics.

      Can you carve out one of those lovely, shallow "bacon-strip" divots with your PRACTICE swing?
      I'll bet you can.
      Now all that's left is to relocate our feet and do that again; this time a few inches over there next to that small, round, white, dimpled thing sitting on the ground...

      Sometimes we just try to do TOO MUCH?

      It is NOT the Iron design-technology or the WIG-philosophy that's in the way, it is us.

      Out-of-the-way...out-of-the-way....

      Remember our Chairman's early video...Hitting the Ball is NOT your Job (part I & II).

      Hang in there, my friend. What you seek is still right there inside of you, just as it was before. Just let it out.

      Love this place and you guys

      dude abides


      "OLD" Forum Participation

      Entry Date: 18-JAN-2011
      Posts: 1813
      Thank You: 1048

      "Be water, my friends"

      Comment


      • #4
        Greg, hey like usual I'll throw something different out here on the subject. I like to think about two things when using my irons. I'm sure it is quite unconventional but seems to keep me grounded (no pun intended). I visualize the the toe of the club staying slightly higher than the heel throughout the swing arc and I focus on the shaft passing just by the ball on the inside during the swing. I think it narrows my focus during my swing to the target. The shaft will bow the toe down normally and there is less ground interference at impact. Might be something to try??

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Gregman55 View Post
          Guys I’ve been here on the forum for a few years now and have learned a lot, but I have a confession to make. I’ve had several sets of irons and now matter what I just stink at hitting them on the golf course. My driver and woods are fine and so are my hybrids but when it’s time for an iron shot it’s a train wreck, fat, thin, over the top anything and everything you can name in the book. I love my new Muzino irons (MP h4 3-PW) a friend practically gave them to me when my others had some problems, anyway I must admit that I even tried the conventional swing taught and had the same results, a good shot every now and then. I played today and barely broke 100, driver was awesome but irons killed me. I really like WIG but I’m at the point I don’t know what to do. Thanks in advance. Take care.
          Hi Greg,

          In the past, I know you've struggled with taking divots with your irons, and similar things to what you mentioned above. In fact, I just went back and looked at some of your previous posts and here's a partial quote from one that you wrote last year . . . "I still really struggle with WIG . . . I have problems with the up and down movement which causes me to thin shots and too much weight on my left side at set up will cause a reverse pivot in my backswing."

          Based on this, I'm guessing that (at least part of) the root cause of your current issues has to do with an initial set up with too much weight on your left side, and a reverse pivot in your backswing. If you're overdoing the "braced tilt" business in your set up, with minimal weight on your rear leg, it will easily cause the kinds of issues you're dealing with now.

          So I would suggest that you approach your initial set up differently; and it's something that Shawn has suggested for anyone who has "overdone" the "braced tilt" set up. It's really the opposite of bracing your weight on your lead side at set up, and it's starting off with more of your weight loaded on your rear leg. Check out this video, starting at about the 7:45 mark . . .



          As Shawn explains in this video (which would be good to watch in its entirety), starting with the weight predominately on the rear leg is done within the context of his walking while swinging drill. And I'm thinking if you give this a try it will get you away from overdoing the "braced tilt" set up, and away from the reverse pivot issue, and help you stay in better balance while keeping you centered along with the proper weight shift as you swing.

          I hope this helps!

          Comment


          • #6
            If you believe that the golf swing is really an upswing where hands are infront of the ball and connecting with the ball is on the up part of the swing and bottom of the swing arc is behind the ball then taking divots is easy. Contact off the tightest of lies is easy.

            When you imagine or feel that the bottom of the arc is at the ball and your hands return to set up area then thins, fat shots are common place. If you are the kind of player that can regularly duff a 15 yard chip or thin a wedge over the green from 30 yards then this may be critical to your thinking.

            Try making some 10 yard chip shots. Get a wedge and set up with your hands in front of the ball. Now dont hinge just make a tiny swing hinge and hold style as though you are going to hit the ground a tiny bit behind the ball. Make sure it is a downwards strike and vertical drop curve. NOT a lateral strike intent.

            That will give you the principle of ball first. Once you understand the point on the swing that connects the ball and then ground you can move on to longer shots and ditch the hinge and hold. The key is hands nearer to target than at set up.

            Dont forget you are making a swing and your ball gets in the way. Try that before you give up.

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks guys for the suggestions, I will give this a try and see what happens. It’s really frustrating to hit a beautiful drive and then duff the iron shot into the green. I don’t know how many times this happened last weekend, got to the point I just started picking up. Didn’t want any more embarrassment!

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi Gregman, just to be clear my suggestion has nothing to do with swing mechanics. It is purely understanding where on the swing curve the ball is struck.

                So if your impact hands are infront of the ball then you understand that the low point of the swing curve is after the ball and the ball is stuck maybe 40% of the swing curve and not half way or 50% along the curve where the incorrect intent is to contact at the middle of the curve.

                If you swing with the idea that the ball is caught at 50% and the exact bottom of a curve centred above the ball then you can see a duff or thin is easy and is the same cause.

                So technically in the correct impact the ball is being connected with the face on the upswing of a forward placed curve and then takes the ball then divot.

                This will also stop your pitch and chip shot running on as much.

                Hope I have explained that ok.

                Do not stop on your shots. Swing through and ball gets in the way. Just make a smaller swing for short pitch.

                Im almost certain the bottom of your swing is currently at the ball.

                With drives it doesnt need to be at the bottom so that is why you can bomb it down the fairway and thin or duff your shorter shots.

                The shank can be caused by advancing hands in an attempt to steer the club to avoid the duff.

                10 yard chip. hands forward at address with shaft lean on wedge. Think of swing arc bottom out infront of ball. Dont hinge. Tiny swing with impact at what feels more like the beginning of swing. Ball first then ground.

                Once comfortable work on 40 yard wedge and start mini hinge with same intent.

                I promise you duffs will be rare once you got it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Gmonkey View Post
                  Hi Gregman, just to be clear my suggestion has nothing to do with swing mechanics. It is purely understanding where on the swing curve the ball is struck.

                  So if your impact hands are infront of the ball then you understand that the low point of the swing curve is after the ball and the ball is stuck maybe 40% of the swing curve and not half way or 50% along the curve where the incorrect intent is to contact at the middle of the curve.

                  If you swing with the idea that the ball is caught at 50% and the exact bottom of a curve centred above the ball then you can see a duff or thin is easy and is the same cause.

                  So technically in the correct impact the ball is being connected with the face on the upswing of a forward placed curve and then takes the ball then divot.

                  This will also stop your pitch and chip shot running on as much.

                  Hope I have explained that ok.

                  Do not stop on your shots. Swing through and ball gets in the way. Just make a smaller swing for short pitch.

                  Im almost certain the bottom of your swing is currently at the ball.

                  With drives it doesnt need to be at the bottom so that is why you can bomb it down the fairway and thin or duff your shorter shots.

                  The shank can be caused by advancing hands in an attempt to steer the club to avoid the duff.

                  10 yard chip. hands forward at address with shaft lean on wedge. Think of swing arc bottom out infront of ball. Dont hinge. Tiny swing with impact at what feels more like the beginning of swing. Ball first then ground.

                  Once comfortable work on 40 yard wedge and start mini hinge with same intent.

                  I promise you duffs will be rare once you got it.
                  Thanks Gmonkey, I understand what you are saying for the better part. I have watched the bottom of my swing arc and it’s definitely not where it should be. It seems like it’s always just at the ball or just before, I guess the ball contact should be at the 40% on the down swing curve. Ball, grass, ground I think I have heard Shawn say. What you said about a “vertical curve” registered with me instead of a flat plane coming into the ball. Thanks.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Alpineberlinette View Post
                    I had the same for many years.
                    My swingspeed is really high, approx 110 mph.
                    It is so frustrating to split the fairway with the driver and the ball lays perfect on the fairway after 280 yards and then you produce a shank with the SW.

                    Several reasons I found out for me.

                    1. Too much iron practice on mats. It is a difference on real grass.
                    2. Playing blades in combination with heavy shafts. Actually my gamer is Titleist AP2 forged with a 85g Recoil shaft.
                    3. Iron swing and driver swing needs different set up and execution.
                    4. Ball on grass triggers much more likely my strong ball focus compared to a ball above the ground with a tee.
                    5. The shallow form of a wood head associates for me sweeping over the ground, the iron shape tend to give me the feeling, it cannot glide over the ground.

                    Everybody will tell you, irons are easier than woods, but for me it was always vice versa.
                    I'm back to comment here on my progress, I'm making small steps towards getting better with my irons. Woods are still doing ok. I noticed in your list of things here that really messed you up, one thing for sure I did learn on mats and that was a BIG mistake, turned me into a sweeper of the ball. I was looking at the #2 comment about playing blades, I currently don't play them, my current set is a set of Mizuno MP H4's which are a hollow cavity back set of irons which are progressive which make the long irons easier to hit. However they do have a heavier shaft in them than I had before and I can feel the difference in the weight of the club, the lighter shaft I was playing seems to get almost too light and can't really feel it. With the heavier shaft I can feel the momentum of the club gaining speed on the way down and it seems to track better on the plane to the target to where I'm swinging. I only lost a few yards with these irons, also going from a cast iron to a forged was a big difference and also the lofts on the Mizuno's are about 3 to 4 degrees weaker per club. I can also go have the lofts made stronger if I want. As long as I'm getting decent distance, does anyone think that I need a lighter shaft?
                    Thanks guys.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Gregman55 View Post

                      I'm back to comment here on my progress, I'm making small steps towards getting better with my irons. Woods are still doing ok. I noticed in your list of things here that really messed you up, one thing for sure I did learn on mats and that was a BIG mistake, turned me into a sweeper of the ball. I was looking at the #2 comment about playing blades, I currently don't play them, my current set is a set of Mizuno MP H4's which are a hollow cavity back set of irons which are progressive which make the long irons easier to hit. However they do have a heavier shaft in them than I had before and I can feel the difference in the weight of the club, the lighter shaft I was playing seems to get almost too light and can't really feel it. With the heavier shaft I can feel the momentum of the club gaining speed on the way down and it seems to track better on the plane to the target to where I'm swinging. I only lost a few yards with these irons, also going from a cast iron to a forged was a big difference and also the lofts on the Mizuno's are about 3 to 4 degrees weaker per club. I can also go have the lofts made stronger if I want. As long as I'm getting decent distance, does anyone think that I need a lighter shaft?
                      Thanks guys.
                      Gman

                      maybe you've done this already - but see if there is a Mizuno fitter near you with this technology - might be enlightening as to what the best shaft for your H4's would be..

                      as to lofts/lies .. I think once you get an idea of what shafts fit - and you have a pattern, they can adjust as needed ..

                      usually it will give you about 3 shaft options with one that is recommended as optimal ..

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