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  • #16
    Don't know him; did not have time to watch the whole thing; what was his final conclusion?

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    • Schrodinger
      Schrodinger commented
      Editing a comment
      I spent over 60 mins watching his videos and he was advocating light grip, feeling the weight of the clubhead using centrifugal force, awareness of the clubface using the small muscles in the fingers/wrists/hands. He basically advocated using your own internal 'hand/eye' coordination for swinging the golf club plus quoted some experiments conducted on internal/external cues. That people who use external cues (ie. concentrating and feeling spatial awareness of the clubhead) rather than internal body movements improve more rapidly. He says that your swing dictates the mechanics not vice versa. That bio-mechanics are just the 'dressing' on top of the cake that can 'hone' your golf swing. That Jim Furyk and Tiger Woods have the same swing but different mechanics. So in essence, just words but nothing else that I can see to support them - and he wants people to vote for him as best online instructor . Lol.

      PS. From his website- seems a little dubious to me.

      The first skill is a consistent “real swing” defined by the clubhead swinging freely, fluidly, and fast through the impact area. Most people are able to learn this skill in about 20 minutes!!!
      The second skill involves acquiring a highly developed sense of “feel” for the clubhead’s “heavy feeling” circular path as it swings around you so you will be able to strike the ball on the centre of the club-face consistently.
      For the foundation of your golf swing, we help you develop skill with the only thing that actually has any effect on the ball: the clubhead. As you develop these two critical “foundation” skills, you will achieve a consistency you never thought was possible!
      Last edited by Schrodinger; 12-17-2015, 10:58 AM.

  • #17
    Philosophy of "Swing the club head" as proposed by Ernest Jones and Manuel De La Torre

    Some of his "before and after" videos with the beginners on his website are very impressive - especially with some of those girls who just picked up a club for the first time.

    Obviously his emphasis away from mechanics is a good thing.

    I agree with his idea that many people quit playing golf because they can not get to the point where they can make consistent contact, and then play the game with it.

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    • #18
      Originally posted by Schrodinger View Post
      I spent over 60 mins watching his videos and he was advocating light grip, feeling the weight of the clubhead using centrifugal force, awareness of the clubface using the small muscles in the fingers/wrists/hands. He basically advocated using your own internal 'hand/eye' coordination for swinging the golf club plus quoted some experiments conducted on internal/external cues. That people who use external cues (ie. concentrating and feeling spatial awareness of the clubhead) rather than internal body movements improve more rapidly. He says that your swing dictates the mechanics not vice versa. That bio-mechanics are just the 'dressing' on top of the cake that can 'hone' your golf swing. That Jim Furyk and Tiger Woods have the same swing but different mechanics. So in essence, just words but nothing else that I can see to support them - and he wants people to vote for him as best online instructor . Lol.

      PS. From his website- seems a little dubious to me.

      The first skill is a consistent “real swing” defined by the clubhead swinging freely, fluidly, and fast through the impact area. Most people are able to learn this skill in about 20 minutes!!!
      The second skill involves acquiring a highly developed sense of “feel” for the clubhead’s “heavy feeling” circular path as it swings around you so you will be able to strike the ball on the centre of the club-face consistently.
      For the foundation of your golf swing, we help you develop skill with the only thing that actually has any effect on the ball: the clubhead. As you develop these two critical “foundation” skills, you will achieve a consistency you never thought was possible!
      HI Schrodinger and Hello WIG friends throughout the world..

      been trying to keep up with your journey as you share your thinking and current path(s) - and appreciate your openness and various explorations of swing theories and mechanics ..

      this latest has caught my attention - in particular you articulating a sense of 'being dubious' about the statement on this other instructor's website..

      are you able to share what if anything in particular that has made you feel skeptical or apprehensive about that material?

      curious as to how you are currently or considering approaching the golf swing now...

      no need for great or minute detail - I know that you had mentioned that you were following Leadbetter..and clearly are now learning WIG..

      and clearly you are very well read and a great student of the golf swing -

      interested in your perspective..

      thanks!

      k_f

      from the hidden Ravine below 13th at CN G&CC
      tu nunquam hic

      Secret Swing Tech c/o Pigaman @ Crackpot Labs

      wisdomingolf.com/index.php?option=com_ku...&id=47972&Itemid=225

      let energy instead of style define you.

      Proud Member 'Quote Yourself Club'

      Comment


      • Schrodinger
        Schrodinger commented
        Editing a comment
        Hi Kid - I am dubious because I have not discovered (yet) any instruction from him about how to swing freely, fluidly and fast through the impact area. I am guessing that when you pay for his instruction and advice he is going to repeat some of the analogy feel drills that Shawn has already provided to us on 100's of you tube videos.

        With regards my own full swing, this is what I have discovered :
        1. I am definitely centre anchored rather than front or rear anchor (I hit balls much better with feet together drill).So my braced tilt should match what Shawn said at 3:07 (redistributed 50:50 weight ) in his video above. Currently I am setting up wrong for a centre anchor by putting more weight on my front leg when doing the braced tilt.
        2. I am definitely a 'push turn/push turn' weight shifter and I am allowing my legs to extend and squat as per WIG centrifugal pump.
        3. I can swing better and not mix 'hitting' if there is no active pushing pressure with my right trigger swing (just reactive to the weight and through impact). If I do the latter and allow my backswing to start freely like a throw in the backswing (ie. WIG method throwing a medicine ball), the swing path tends to become a natural vertical swing (for me) and my right upper arm disconnects a bit more from my upper ripcage (ie. more width).
        4. My downswing is WIG (ie. throwing to a target ) but high track that fits my biomechanics (ie. more vertical on a shoulder plane).
        5. I am still uncertain about whether I am getting 'out of the way' enough because I am actively keeping my left heel on the ground. Very difficult to get into the habit of rolling the ankles properly because of a lifetime of walking (ie. lifting heel and knee vertically).

        Still experimenting with the WIG short game chipping and pitching but I'm definitely not a WIG momentum putter.

        ps. I followed Leadbetter in my mid 30's (dog wagging the tail method) , bought his videos and books but game went downhill -really wild and terrible. Then I found this instruction by Leslie King (mainly left arm swing - body reacts to the swinging of the arms) and it turned my game around in my 40's (ie.not as many 'Fores!!!' ) but stopped improving after several more years. Tried PPGS , then S&T and then 'Minimalist One Plane Swing' (Kirk Junge) , had temporary success with all of them but then stalled again (backache). Started reading Ed Tischler's books on discovering and owning your own swing (to fit ones body type) and mixed this in with WIG methods. My swing feels more comfortable , less backache and I am playing a lot more consistently.

        I am definitely a believer that the body reacts (ie. braces and counterweights) to the free swinging of the arms/wrists/hands, not big muscles driving the smaller muscles.

        Biggest issue for me is still allowing my eyes to follow my backswing and lose focus on swinging to target - did this for so many years when I followed Leadbetter's instruction and then Leslie King method (the latter instruction saved me from quitting the game).
        Last edited by Schrodinger; 12-17-2015, 06:39 PM.

    • #19
      Hi Schrodinger..

      thanks for the kind and detailed reply on my inquiry..

      what you've shared confirms what I suspected might be the case..long career in golf and considerable exposure to and study of a variety of methods and method based swings. I'm a bit more of a casual 'tourist' of these things but have had my share of instruction based in and around some of those same ideas so I can relate to some of the stops you've been on.

      I'm not certain that I can necessarily flip a 'here's what I see as the difference' switch and let you tap more fully into the wellspring of WIG thinking....but something that might be worth your attention might be some of Shawn's more feel-based analogies vs. the more visual or positional ones..

      there are a number of them - but this one is concise and helps you find the right sets of posture and reactions straight away..



      he also has a great series on the importance of rhythm that build on this sort of 'weight based' thinking/platform and let the various 'chips' of the resulting feels and looks simply appear ..

      anyway - hope this is something that you had not yet looked at and gives you a means of being able to directly experience some of what Shawn is demonstrating and trying to describe..

      let your body find a way to move something heavy to a target..

      might be cool to see what happens..

      cheers

      k_f


      here's the Rhythm 'sampler' Shawn has a very cool series on this - not talked about lately - but there were a great many 'hidden gems' in this instruction..

      Last edited by kid_fullerene; 12-17-2015, 07:04 PM. Reason: added rhythm vid
      from the hidden Ravine below 13th at CN G&CC
      tu nunquam hic

      Secret Swing Tech c/o Pigaman @ Crackpot Labs

      wisdomingolf.com/index.php?option=com_ku...&id=47972&Itemid=225

      let energy instead of style define you.

      Proud Member 'Quote Yourself Club'

      Comment


      • Schrodinger
        Schrodinger commented
        Editing a comment
        Many thanks Kid . I've actually seen these videos before but worth reviewing again (always seem to find some new 'aha' pointers I may have previously missed).

      • kid_fullerene
        kid_fullerene commented
        Editing a comment
        Hi Schrodinger -

        kind of doubted that you had somehow missed the video(s) - your drive to gain information is considerable and suspect that you've probably got a pretty vast reservoir of information to draw on..Mine, quite frankly, is not nearly that wide or deep - but is after a fashion, kind of similar - so I spend my share of time looking for 'a spark' that would somehow tie this stuff together. I believe that in Shawn's thinking - it's in being able to find the weight and convert it into awareness and momentum - the rest of the stuff will follow. The notion being that an optimal resulting 'position(s)' for me - may not be the same appearance as the Chairman or 'the Schrodinger' ..but if I'm able to respond by simply following my instincts and 'self preservation' and athletically get out of the way, I can begin to realize a better experience with my golf. There is considerable truth to this. Probably one of the best ways to move it from the instinctual into the cognitive is through the awareness of the Hogan Power Move in the WIG method..that's the 'engine' of how the weight (into momentum) is moved and then experienced as a 'whipping action'..

        I had a lot of mechanical thinking (still do) when I started - but I literally worked 'ground up' - what worked for me and might help you is some balance disks or even standing on a 2x4 or 2x6 to experience where and how the weight is moving as you swing the ACU - gave me great awareness and broke me out of the gigantic mechanical golf trance that I had spent so much time in. I won't tease you - there are plenty of bits of technique and mechanics involved, but if you can get yourself into a mode of learning them through that 'where is the weight going' and 'how did that just create momentum' and 'what did my body just do'? kind of mindset..you'll get spark, after spark, after spark..

        seems laughable - and asking a grown man to stand on a 2x4 ..well, that's asking a lot..all I can say is that I have no idea where you are, have no cameras there and am not trying to 'prank' you ..just hoping to find a way for you to take what you know and see it for a second in a different enough light..I suspect you'll take it from there!

        cheers

        k_f

    • #20
      Many thanks for your advice Kid.

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