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Target Line Wrists and intent

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  • #46
    Originally posted by kid_fullerene View Post
    hi WIG Friends..


    in reading Gmonkey's latest ..I'm drawn to the description of how the clubhead travels through the ball..upward intent but with a downward transit..(I think I have that right(ish)).

    a sort of how can this happen ..a great paradox.

    do I have that right? YES AND PUT BETTER THAN I DID.

    so - I'll assume for a second that I might - and offer then a couple of questions:

    1. Does Shawn say the head of the club head travels on its own Arc? Factually the club head will travel along the lines of a double pendulum. But are we talking feel here and intent.

    sub question : does that arc travel in exactly the same rate on the downswing as does the rest of the ACU ..? maybe initially drop at same rate but the club head will at impact be swinging faster than ACU. Once the inertia of the club head catches the ACU then thats why you get a hip stall. You can see stalls in trebuchet slow motion video. Same reason for them. Some advanced trebuchets have multi stall actions. Science way beyond a golf swing.

    2. Shawn talks about observing the blur - as a direction of momentum through the ball - where does the blur come from? Club head. He often talks about the blur cutting dandilion flower.

    3. Describe for me as best you can - WIG or otherwise ..what your notion of clubhead release is (not so much a question but an inquiry as to perception) Club head release is swing forces reacting to the weight of the club with the correct swing and correct grip through the strike.

    4. Where would a divot emerge from and how does that work dynamically? (to borrow a phrase from Shawn) A divot will emerge target side of where the ball lay. Dynamically the ball is not being hit at. The swing impacts the ball on route and low point will be after the ball in an iron swing set up to target.

    5. earlier in this thread - I attempted to outline how swing sequences could play into potential release patterns and how they might look to the eye..so are eyeline, target line and perceived swing line all the same? Ive never thought of eyeline before. I have in fishing but not in golf. Wooltie says it has an impact and ive no reason to doubt it.

    6. where ..and I mean give me an area ..on the back of the ball are you trying to hit..? I dont aim at back of ball. Wooltie or Cally may do. In any case its more of predicting where the swing will impact though rather than hit. Standard answer is 5 pm on a clock but Im more with the dandilion cutting thing than an area of the ball.

    I don't believe Shawn so much discusses hitting the ball but allowing momentum directed through it to perform a task as cutting the grass in front of it..a sort of 'whipping action' .. That is the feeling I have also.

    so Bonus Question -

    7. is this whipping action directed through path alone or is there an additional or perhaps different dynamic in play? Lots of things in play. Intent and path is the biggie tho.


    Finally .

    how does the fall action become combined with the ground forces and body rotation to produce incremental power? The same way javelin, a throw, a baseball hit is etc.... what would that look like in terms of club head? You are catching a fall and using rotory power from the ground to swing a weight. You are not throwing a weight outwards. You are pulling a weight around and reacting against that. At impact the weight is still travelling to its destination. Like twirling a ball on a string. you are pulling that string not pushing anything outwards.

    do they share similar characteristics ..but follow different order..due to sequencing of the body and the setup to the swing line? CNS will sort all that. Ive got no idea how my mouth whistles dixie. What sequences take place or whatever. You are into perfecting your tune. No longer learning how to whistle.

    well..

    plenty to mull over if anyone chooses to have a 'go' at one or more of them..





    cheers for now

    k_f
    Dont take any of what I say as gospel. Im always open to debate and reasoning if necessary.

    catch the fall and swing at the ball = Left.
    Catch the fall and swing right = right or left or sometimes straight.
    Catch the fall and swing to target and boom ....golden.
    Last edited by Gmonkey; 08-24-2017, 12:09 PM.

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    • kid_fullerene
      kid_fullerene commented
      Editing a comment
      GM ..thanks for having a 'go' at those 'thought questions' and 'thought experiments' I am re-reading and processing your various 'takes' on them and will see where it leads me. I have come to believe strongly that once force has gone into the clubhead and it is accelerated ..it becomes its own actor its own 'agent' that will seek its own path.. All technique(s) are in service to that ..and that's where and when that the conversation expands beyond path.. My opinion at least, but I believe that as the club head is acting now in accordance to its own rules some physics and feedback come into play.. and it's not only in how one sees path, but how one is setup to see release (and not interfere..or think for it..the Dude says ..'do nothing' and I think he means it) if you wanted to approach this from a 'path perspective' a way to think about it ..is that you take the club away on a path of intention and once you feel the weight and let it fall..all you can do is 'get out of its way' or allow your body to release it on a path of its choosing . probably a bit too esoteric..but it's a sort of ..'where would the club head go if the club head was allowed to go where it wanted unimpeded?' For what it's worth ..the various swing sequences play into it ..both in terms of optics..but also in terms of the feels that are associated with those optics.. anyway...off I go ..time to give this some more thought ..cheers k_f

  • #47
    Think about this.

    When you observe an airplane in the sky overhead, flying towards its destination, do u see the airplane traveling in a straight line?
    swing down the line

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    • #48
      Originally posted by Schrodinger View Post
      Hi Gmonkey - What you are saying (i think!) is actually mentioned in this old book I have . I've attached a scanned image .
      Bringing one back from the dead..Found this thread when looking for insight into a consistent push-fade. The illustration the Schrodinger shared set off a light bulb for me. I've follow Shawn for years and intellectually I get what he talks about but I've always felt that I've needed the qualifier of "how" to throw the club or skip the stone. I get that what Shawn espouses is "instinctual" but my CNS needs that extra input of how or in what way do you want me to accomplish the task. Throwing a ball for example. Given that task I could throw a ball in 10 different ways but still, in the end, have thrown a ball. So here is where the "how" kicks in. Do you want me to throw it underhand, overhand, side-arm or something in between? This is where that illustration of the perceived hand line struck a chord. Due to anatomy we know motions in actuality work in an arc but that is now how our conscious mind is guiding our CNS to perform that task.

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